I haven't read this whole post yet, so forgive me if this has already been covered. One thing this election has shown us is that we have become a nation strongly divided. Almost 100 million people voted in this election and only 200 thousand seperates the popular vote. The map of the United States clearly shows that the heart of this country went the conservative route and heavly populated areas favored the liberal vote.
What do you think will happen to this country if we continue to be so seperate? Will we have another civil war? How can a nation as a whole survive when we have such strong differences?
Why aren't more FL democrats expressing their anger & frustration at their own party officials? You know, the ones who were responsible for putting the party faithful vote in such jeopardy? The ones who approved in advance that "undecipherable" ballot. It seems to me that the angst those voters feel is being directed towards those "meanie" republicans rather than where the blame should really rest.
Interesting note - I live in northern Florida and the paper said today that 22,000 Duval county ballots were thrown out because people also voted for 2 presidential candidates. Their ballot is a booklet with 2 pages of candidates. Well evidently 22,000 voters thought they had to vote for a president on EACH page! Duval county was majority Bush, so this just adds more to the mix! I hope EVERYBODY pays attention to the sample ballot next time and READS the instructions. What a mess!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HATTIE: ... 22,000 Duval county ballots were thrown out because people also voted for 2 presidential candidates. Their ballot is a booklet with 2 pages of candidates. Well evidently 22,000 voters thought they had to vote for a president on EACH page! Duval county was majority Bush, so this just adds more to the mix!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think any re-vote should take place (yes, even if that means that republicans don't get to contribute to the outcome).
If the outcome of this election is so important to them now, why wasn't it at least worth a double-check in the voting booth on election day? Why didn't these voters view the ballot ahead of time when it was made available? Why didn't they ask questions at their polling place before it was too late? I think they disenfranchised themselves.
Just like now, it was a can of worms. Now if they recount the other four states it may solve the Florida problem.
Strangely, Daly's Dad dicovered a whole bunch of votes that hadn't been counted when the polls closed. These boxes were then counted after the reports had been sent in...sound familiar.
I think the point is that nothing has been done from now to then to pervent such problems. On the news they say that this same butterfly ballot is used in Illinois.
There is still a possibility that if all the votes are recounted and enough errors are corrected we could wind up with each candidate getting 269 in the Electorial count. Now wouldn't that be special! Then I guess they could elect Nader as the compromise candidate.
originally posted by Snowbird: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Personally I used to think the Electoral system was unnecessary. This election proved it's not true. It was a brilliant idea that has sustained our freedom. Look at the map after it is colored in Gore/Bush.
What do you see even in Florida two thirds of the country voted for Bush. The cities and over-populated areas went for Gore. Do you seriously believe that the best government would come from the opinions of the city versus those who raise our food in the breadbasket. The Electoral college guarantees an equalizing of all the segments and doesn't give ultimate authority to those who only deal with city problems and jobs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I fail to see how the electoral college equalizes anything. I live in VA, I voted for Gore. Since more Virginians are Republican, Bush will receive my (albeit minute) portion of the VA electoral vote. Well I don't want him to have it! As I see it, my vote was meaningless because VA is so far to the right, Gore never made more than a token effort to campaign here. If every person's vote truly counted, than the candidates would work hard for EVERY vote, in EVERY state. When I lived in Hawaii (heavily Democratic) we NEVER as far as I remember had a GOP Pres Candidate come out to work the state. Did either Bush or Gore go to Alaska or Hawaii this time?? I don't know. Both states are so far removed from DC and have such a small number of electoral votes, they're not worth a candidate's time.
~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
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Kryswyn (NOT A FLAME) then you don't really understand the electoral college. AOL has a good summary of the process and it is really understandable. (even though they are probably ,like all the press, extraordinarily liberal) It is so the smaller (populus) states aren't mowed down by the coasts. I can't do the philosophy justice but read it yourself and see if it is any clearer. Don't go psycho on me, I am not trying to flame.
The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.
I thought Kryswyn made an excellent point, regardless of the old function of the electoral college. It's true that today's presidential campaign goes (and cares) only where the electoral votes go. I suspect that changing the system wouldn't bring them to Hawaii more often without some assistance (like a huge convention held down there which brought in even more people, not just the limited number of residents), but it is a shame how they ignore the small states if their not Super Tuesday ones.
Woodbern, some level of government is going to more-or less run your life, one way or another. The question is, who is more likely to do it better? (No, not and never flawlessly, or even terribly well--just BETTER than the alternative)? Who gets elected to local office and what are their qualifications? Maybe where you live that's not an issue. But given where I lived, and have lived, it sure as heck is!
At least the sheer cost of living in DC as well as in one's home state ensures to some extent that educated, more-or-less well rounded and worldly individuals will be making important decisions. Nothing can protect a populace from its bureaucrats, of course, but--and I'm sorry to speak coarsely, but I'm doing so to make a point--there's just no way I'd sit quietly while a bunch of potentially ignorant, local hicks decided MY fate!
At least the potentially ignorant hick they may have elected to represent them in DC had to do a LITTLE bit more than send a few contracts this way or that to get elected.
Well Kryswynn it evens out! I am a Republican and voted for Bush but New Jersey went for Gore because of our big city votes.
Don't you see that the rural areas where there are farmers are never going to beat a popular vote from the city, so they would never be represented. There just are not enough people living in those areas compared to people who live 10 deep in the city.
I was active in the Nixon campaign, and the Republican Party. The Daly family earned it's priority in the Democratic party because they could deliver their districts and state. The boxes were found after the results from that area had been sent in. I believe they were democratic votes and they were counted which gave JFK the edge he needed.
Perhaps, if Nixon had not conceded we wouldn't have this problem today because they would be no butterfly forms. However, since there is a 6% margin of error anyway in all states and districts, if you are going to recount manually then you have to do the Republican districts too and find their 6% errors. So the entire state must be counted.
Now, it is possible that there are hundreds of thousands of votes in New York and California by illegal aliens who have registered without having to show their birth certificate. We can find those. And, there are 6 or 7 close states they need to be recounted too to be fair.
If we do all that who will ever trust and election again. It will do irreparable harm to both candidates and the system. Surely, no one was so naive as to think the system in place was 100% accurate.