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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    You could breed a mare during halftime of the super bowl. You would still need dna to prove who the horses in question were.
    That's quite the visual..
    I don't think it would get by the censors.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Live cover wouldn't eliminate fraud of course, however I think it is more likely to make an honest mistake with semen than with a live horse that everyone on the farm knows..

    I really hadn't thought about the great amount of trust involved in breeding,using shipped semen. I would definitely be DNA testing my foals if I was in the business.

    Those of you who breed using shipped semen,do you DNA test your foals if the registry does not require it?
    Because of prior experience (with a different breed), we DNA all foals. Welsh or part bred Welsh ponies do require DNA testing.

    Believe me, live cover does not protect you. When you send your mare out to be bred, you still have to have a certain amount of faith. Even if it is taped, do you really know the big bay stallion on the tape is the correct one?

    DNA is the best option for parentage verification that we currently have available.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldernewbie View Post
    Breed to the clone instead of the original and typical DNA testing wouldn't catch that....
    This is an interesting brain twister. I'm not sure but what there's no difference, really--since the clone IS the same DNA.



  4. #44
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    I thought that you must.. Otherwise your whole breeding program could be compromised.

    What a shame for those breeders that had already bred mares to the 2 stallions in question.
    I can't fathom what the S.O. (in the Blue Hors incident) was thinking. He had to know the truth would be discovered at some point in time..



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    I thought that you must.. Otherwise your whole breeding program could be compromised.

    What a shame for those breeders that had already bred mares to the 2 stallions in question.
    I can't fathom what the S.O. (in the Blue Hors incident) was thinking. He had to know the truth would be discovered at some point in time..
    The SOs that are doing it knowingly don't care. They can't. It is making them money, if and until it is discovered. When the house of cards starts to fall, it takes down so many unsuspecting owners along with the SO. That's the sad part.
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  6. #46
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    We never got DNA on me. So now I should worry about whether my parents were my parents? Talk about removing the foundations of existence!
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somermist View Post
    The SOs that are doing it knowingly don't care. They can't. It is making them money, if and until it is discovered. When the house of cards starts to fall, it takes down so many unsuspecting owners along with the SO. That's the sad part.
    Surely he will be prosecuted for fraud..

    That is a pretty well known breeding operation isn't it?



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    We never got DNA on me. So now I should worry about whether my parents were my parents? Talk about removing the foundations of existence!
    You'd better get right on that if you are founding a dynasty!



  9. #49
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    i really do think it is fascinating how much trust we all put into all of this. i mean - until recently there was no way to know . and i don't think folks back in the 1600s were any more or less able to keep records straight.

    i also think it is human nature to try to game the system - no matter what system we are talking about.

    i think that DNA testing is going to reveal some really interesting results over time.



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Surely he will be prosecuted for fraud..

    That is a pretty well known breeding operation isn't it?
    The scope of some of these things is quite large. Seeing one prosecuted for fraud is of little comfort when someone is left with an animal that: is not what you thought, is not worth what you thought, has had their registration papers pulled and have compromised your own breeding program.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somermist View Post
    The scope of some of these things is quite large. Seeing one prosecuted for fraud is of little comfort when someone is left with an animal that: is not what you thought, is not worth what you thought, has had their registration papers pulled and have compromised your own breeding program.
    Of course, and it seems that horse related fraud isn't taken as seriously as some other frauds.

    I was curious what Blue Hors Stud had to say about this (if anything), so I found their website which has THIS to say about the matter; (last 2 paragraphs)

    "The mistake concerning the pedigree of Sezuan happened when we at Blue Hors fail (sic) to report that there had been a switch of stallions".

    "In the future if you switch stallions during the breeding season please be sure to check that the information on your receipt for the covering are correct so that mistakes like this can be prevented in the future"

    REALLY?

    We were negligent ,so you had better not be?

    Both stud farm, AND owner clueless, so this will be passed off as a paperwork error? That won't fly, or will it? Will they get away with that B.S.?
    Last edited by skydy; May. 13, 2012 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Paragraphs..



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Of course, and it seems that horse related fraud isn't taken as seriously as some other frauds.

    I was curious what Blue Hors Stud had to say about this (if anything), so I found their website which has THIS to say about the matter; (last 2 paragraphs)
    "The mistake concerning the pedigree of Sezuan happened when we at Blue Hors fail (sic) to report that there had been a switch of stallions".
    "In the future if you switch stallions during the breeding season please be sure to check that the information on your receipt for the covering are correct so that mistakes like this can be prevented in the future"

    REALLY?
    You are one hundred percent correct, you will get no legal satisfaction in this kind of a case.

    As for the statement from Blue Hors, I agree, wow!
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  13. #53
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    I have a feeling that the second case won't be so easily swept under the rug, since it seems the buyer of THAT stallion wasn't "in on it".

    ETA I don't think the second "mistake" belongs to Blue Hors..



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Once I got a call from a stud farm telling me that they covered my mare one day with the stallion she was booked to and the next day accidentally covered her with a different stallion. They asked if I wanted to abort if she came up in foal and I said no. That foal was born with no eyes and was put down at 10 hours old. That would have been an interesting registration.
    Oh, that's awful! Did they tell you who the "wrong" stallion was? And if so, was there close inbreeding with him? I wonder how such an awful malformation came to be?
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  15. #55
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    Yes, they told me who the other stallion was. There was no inbreeding otherwise I would have aborted just in case. He was not stallion material in my opinion and I never would have bred to him on purpose. As far as the birth defect went, I consulted with experts all over the country and they all chalked it up to bad luck but suggested I not breed her back to either of those stallions just in case. She ruptured her uterine artery and died four days before her due date with the next foal so I never found out if I made the right decision to breed her again or not. The foal looked a lot like the "right" sire however so I am pretty sure she took on the first cover.



  16. #56
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    As if breeding wasn't nerve-wracking enough for us newbies... This is my first time getting to pick a stallion and of course I just bought 2 doses of Belissimo... Now I'm going to have this in the back of my head until next year when baby is born and we can check for sure. It really sucks because Belissimo is an impressive stallion and with his Olympic bid I'm assuming he'll grow even more popular. There are going to be quite a few of us fretting over this for the next year, what a bummer



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    As if breeding wasn't nerve-wracking enough for us newbies... This is my first time getting to pick a stallion and of course I just bought 2 doses of Belissimo... Now I'm going to have this in the back of my head until next year when baby is born and we can check for sure. It really sucks because Belissimo is an impressive stallion and with his Olympic bid I'm assuming he'll grow even more popular. There are going to be quite a few of us fretting over this for the next year, what a bummer
    If I were in your position, and found out I was defrauded after DNA testing, I'd end up OWNING Belissimo!
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  18. #58
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    Redmond,

    The (not) Belissimo foal was sold at auction by the breeder so maybe you don't have to worry as much.

    That you are put in this position of worry, is inexcusable.

    I hope everything works out for you. Belissimo really is lovely.
    Bet you'll have a gorgeous baby!

    Though, after this mess I'd DNA the foal for sure.



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    As if breeding wasn't nerve-wracking enough for us newbies... This is my first time getting to pick a stallion and of course I just bought 2 doses of Belissimo... Now I'm going to have this in the back of my head until next year when baby is born and we can check for sure. It really sucks because Belissimo is an impressive stallion and with his Olympic bid I'm assuming he'll grow even more popular. There are going to be quite a few of us fretting over this for the next year, what a bummer
    Most stallion owners and trainers are honest. It is good you know what can and has happened, but don't waste all your time worrying. Breeding a mare to a stallion you have chosen is a wonderful journey, enjoy it. Lots of "things" can happen in breeding. It is good to know about them, but no need to fret.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    As if breeding wasn't nerve-wracking enough for us newbies... This is my first time getting to pick a stallion and of course I just bought 2 doses of Belissimo... Now I'm going to have this in the back of my head until next year when baby is born and we can check for sure. It really sucks because Belissimo is an impressive stallion and with his Olympic bid I'm assuming he'll grow even more popular. There are going to be quite a few of us fretting over this for the next year, what a bummer
    My Don Schufro mare just had a Bellissimo filly this year. I am not worried about the dna test, though. There have been many Bellissimo offspring from frozen semen that were dna tested without problem in the last few years. I would not worry, if I were you Redmond. You picked a lovely stallion. Wishing you a great foal next year.



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