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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2011
    Location
    Portland, OR
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    836

    Default $50 charge so I can view my photo proofs? (his response to my questions)

    Can't say I've ever had to do that before! Photos taken at a show where I *think* they tooks photos of every horse (?), and pretty sure there was no sign up fee (at least not that I was ever charged, unless one of those *surprise* hidden tacked on charges.

    I am just a little surprised. But maybe this is because there was no sign up and sign up fee?




    ETA: So when I asked: How many jumping photos of my horse do you have, and how many photos in total, the response was:

    "No idea. We don't archive anything by horse or rider name. I will have to find them manually after getting a description and class list from you. That's where the fee (which can be applied to any purchase) comes in."
    Last edited by Dutch Lovin' Dressage Rider; May. 10, 2012 at 01:23 AM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Lovin' Dressage Rider View Post
    Can't say I've ever had to do that before! Photos taken at a show where I *think* they tooks photos of every horse (?), and pretty sure there was no sign up fee (at least not that I was ever charged, unless one of those *surprise* hidden tacked on charges.

    I am just a little surprised. But maybe this is because there was no sign up and sign up fee?

    As an ammy photographer, I can only speak from my own experiences. So many people will copy their photo off a pro website and keep/post it, watermark and all, and not pay for the photo. When I had my own site, I had things set up so that if someone attempted that, a "You are stealing!" showed up when they right clicked on the picture.
    It's only when a mosquito lands on your privates that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence. fb meme.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2010
    Location
    Catharpin, VA
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    1,062

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kathy s. View Post
    As an ammy photographer, I can only speak from my own experiences. So many people will copy their photo off a pro website and keep/post it, watermark and all, and not pay for the photo. When I had my own site, I had things set up so that if someone attempted that, a "You are stealing!" showed up when they right clicked on the picture.
    This.

    Sadly, the honest who want to purchase photos from the proof must pay the price for those who took free proofs and never ordered.
    Owned by a Paint/TB and an OTTB.
    RIP Scoutin' For Trouble ~ 2011 at 10
    RIP Tasha's Last Tango ~ 2010 at ~23
    RIP In Sha' Allah ~ 2009 too young at 5



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2008
    Posts
    4,625

    Default

    Is it applicable to your purchase? What happens if you decide you'd rather not purchase anything?
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
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    8,665

    Default

    How can you decide to purchase if you can't view without paying? If you don't like the pictures, you still pay $50 for something you did not ask in the first place? Wow, way to get business!! not


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    How can you decide to purchase if you can't view without paying? If you don't like the pictures, you still pay $50 for something you did not ask in the first place? Wow, way to get business!! not
    Count me in as another who would be completely turned off by that. The best photos I have come from a local pro (nationally published) who came out for a photo session. Best show photos, though have come from Dh.



  7. #7
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    Dec. 27, 2010
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    Catharpin, VA
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    Default

    at the rate DSLRs are flying off shelves, and people are thieving proofs and not buying copies, 'Pro' photographers are going to be out of business regardless of charging a fee to view proofs in order to be not so starving an artist anyway.

    We used to get physical proofs mailed to us after shows from the show photog, but they had a big ol PROOF stamp on them, and holes punched in them. I personally wouldn't pay to view proofs, but I can understand the frustration and desperation that would drive a pro to ask me to.
    Owned by a Paint/TB and an OTTB.
    RIP Scoutin' For Trouble ~ 2011 at 10
    RIP Tasha's Last Tango ~ 2010 at ~23
    RIP In Sha' Allah ~ 2009 too young at 5


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2006
    Location
    Maine
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    Default

    And I 've always been thrilled to pay Dusty for her fabulous work. She's also come to my place to shoot the dogs. But I pay after I see the images.

    But yes, patience and a good DSLR makes it more feasible for friends and family to produce "acceptable " images



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Thumbs down

    Total BS. It's not the fault of the subjects of the photographs that the photographers get ripped off - so why are they paying?

    If photographers are so touchy about putting things out on line, go back to sending out proofs. Yeah, it's slower and more expensive for the photog, but their work is protected and they won't p!$$ off their honest customers.

    And, just me, but I always was excited to get proofs in the mail after a show. But I'm geeky like that.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
    Location
    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,584

    Default

    "Acceptable" is not good quality.

    If people keep stealing from the pros, then all you will ever have is "acceptable."

    Very sad.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  11. #11
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Maine
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    Default

    Maybe it's different in other disciplines where there are more competitors in a given day, but in all my years being involved with dressage (I've groomed regularly for friends while not competing a ton myself) I've only only been at one show other than the Region 8 Fall Championship with a pro photographer. If we wanted mementos, then our friends and families needed to get the images. I use the word "acceptable" because I wouldn't insult the pros by comparing my work or that of other amateurs to theirs. When my friend finished her bronze, it was a photo that I took which appeared in the USDF Connection as she had no pro photos from an extensive competition season--not that she didn't/wouldn't have bought any, no pros were at any of them.

    The price of decent quality cameras has dropped. You don't have to pay for film developing. I think these cameras are more forgiving than what the amateur had to work with a decade or two ago.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonesta View Post
    "Acceptable" is not good quality.

    If people keep stealing from the pros, then all you will ever have is "acceptable."

    Very sad.
    And if photographers keep stealing $50 from their good customers, they won't have a business to worry about. Easy peasy.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
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    Default

    It's not the fault of the subjects of the photographs that the photographers get ripped off - so why are they paying?
    Actually, it IS the fault of consumers - many of whom are the subjects of the photos. As someone who also photographs corporate events and has done some weddings, it's been extremely rare that folks would steal my work. In the equine industry, I'm pretty surprised by how many people have lifted proofs posted on their facebook pages.

    Mind you - I'm not a fan of this business model, and unless I knew the pro's work I would be pretty unlikely to pay it unless it was either refundable if they didn't get anything good or applicable to purchase. But I do understand why some photographers are going down this road.
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
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    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    And if photographers keep stealing $50 from their good customers, they won't have a business to worry about. Easy peasy.
    So, it's okay for people to steal from the photographers, but if a photographer wants to fight back by charging to see proofs, he/she is stealing from the client????

    I don't see that at all. And I suspect any and all photogs that charge such a fee applies it to any photos the customer buys.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  15. #15
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    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Default

    Think of it as being charged to try on clothes at Macy's. There's the potential for them being stolen, too, but no one wants to make you pay for the privilege of making sure they fit before you buy. Same thing. Looking is always free. Or it used to be, anyway.

    And you suspect that the photographers will be honest enough to apply a viewing fee to a purchase? What if they don't? It would seem plausible that anyone avaricious enough to charge people for looking at their work wouldn't shudder at the thought of screwing a customer actually purchasing their wares for an extra $50.

    As I said before, there's a really easy way to not get screwed like this; mail out paper proofs via snail mail like they used to. Nobody can copy (any more than they could before), the photogs get paid, people don't have to pay to look at their proofs - everyone wins.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2006
    Posts
    1,511

    Default Why not use....

    Something like Photoshop and make online proofs mixed B/W and color. In a way to make them look freaky.. You could also watermark them and offer rewards for turning in theft and then the website might even name names of people caught.
    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers. Wood Routed Stall and Farm Signs
    http://www.bluemooncustomsigns.com



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2011
    Location
    Portland, OR
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    836

    Default

    So when I asked: How many jumping photos of my horse do you have, and how many photos in total, the response was:

    "No idea. We don't archive anything by horse or rider name. I will have to find them manually after getting a description and class list from you. That's where the fee (which can be applied to any purchase) comes in."





    WOW. Sounds like a real pro to me!


    Next question I'll be asking: "What are your prices?"


    (hopefully not $100 per pic)



    FYI: I paid $150 for a private photo shoot of another horse while at the show already, where only TWO where any good. None of them where really impressive. Trainers disappointed with ittysh pics. Me too for $150.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 29, 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    87

    Default

    i think it's not too unreasonable to charge to view the proofs IF HE TOLD YOU HOW MANY he had of your horse, and if i knew they took quality shots.

    some shows they've had 2 crappy shots, others several dozen. i certainly would expect a more professional reply, and an idea of how many there were before paying.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2012
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    415

    Default

    Uh, no, I wouldn't pay for something I haven't seen.

    And it's not hard to offer watermarked thumbnails so a person could at least see what the photos are like. IMO, if someone's satisfied with a teeny thumbnail, they weren't going to buy anything in the first place.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 11, 2009
    Location
    Dairyville USA
    Posts
    2,979

    Default

    Good grief! What show was this at? I'll make sure not to attend if it's in my area!

    I've several friends who are pro photogs-none of them charge for viewing of proofs. They all use a combination of low resolution/small size/watermarks etc for their proof pages (all on websites with some degree of organization like Susie's photography business>horse shows>year>show name>date>Session (am/noon/pm/eve) and sometimes *gasp* there's a >candids session for the day too!)

    My friends are pretty much universal in their belief that posting the low-res. watermarked proofs online is much more cost-effective (especially when one factors in time/labor) than printing and mailing and keeping track of the old style proofs, even with the odd image thief.

    In fact, many of them will even offer you images on a DVD/CD ready to use online-low res etc so protected from copiers somewhat (doesn't provide a good quality image to print) but good enough for one's webpage/dreamhorse etc.

    ETA: Wow, my apologies-my insomnia is getting the best of me and making me drone on. I'm putting the laptop away now and getting a book out lol! Sorry!
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



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