Check Irish breeders, most sport horses are 1/2 to 3/4 TB www.irishdraught.com
Also, talk with owners of A fine Romance (Fred here on COTH), Sea Accounts (Cryzis Mom) and some of the other stallion owners from the breeders forum - several are eventers or being used for purpose bred event horses
Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses
Another vote for Bruce (however, his TBs are known for being quite hot), and Denny, who's Formula 1 is standing at Chatsworth Stud with Michael and Nathalie Pollard. Aberjack (formerly with Denny) is standing in CA, and is said to be superb. Acorn Hill Farm in VA has produced many advanced horses by Pallas Digion (3 Wishes, Baileywick, Spring Along, Springbock). The list goes on...
I added to your post in sport horse breeding - but will add here again - Sue ockendon has a lot of event bred babies and helped us find a beautiful han/tb filly - related to cool mountain - last year. she is the secretary at bromont - and an fei td - so she knows her stuff.
another person to contact is ruth armstrong at armstrong farms - we have an event mare by her stallion Ilian de Taute and I know she should probably have some purpose bred youngsters or where some might be available. again in canada.
There are a bunch up in this neck of the woods (southern Chester County PA). I have a few and know of others.
You can check out Bruce's, Mary Hazzards, and quite a few others all within 1 hour....then drive south a couple of hours and hit the farms in VA (stopping by the breeder of Slate River along the way--Elizabeth Callahan).
ETA: There are a few FEH classes and YEH classes at some events this summer. See if any are close enough to you and go see what is there and who is there. Not everyone brings their youngsters....I know I have a some conflicts so don't know if I'm going to get there with my 2 year old....but it is a good place to start to see who are breeding horses with an eye for eventers.
Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; May. 10, 2012 at 03:14 PM.
** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **
www.blackshireequestrian.com in Minnesota has had ID and IDSH stallions standing for nearly 10 years now so there are youngsters coming along from Trak, TB, other warmblood mares and an odd appy or Q type as well. They had a super crop of foals last season that may or may not be on their sale page yet but if not email her and ask about them. They would be by a RID stallion named Hangon Johnny. There is an outstanding colt from a Swedish Diploma mare who is newly started 4yo. Also I understand a tradition of 3/4 TB but remember the TB isn't what they used to be(MUCH lighter) and the Irish Draught is a lighter horse as well(more TB blood bred to compete with warmbloods) so you can get the right balance with less that 3/4TB. The TB blood in the IDs can be better than the average American modern TB for sport. PatO
I second the idea to contact stallion owners (if you like the horse or what he is producing). We may not have anything for sale, but we might know of one that is and suits your needs. In fact, I know of a couple of AFR youngsters for sale right now. I am always happy to try to connect the breeders with potential new homes.
We bought an unbacked awesome gelding IDSH bred by Northern Quest Farm, Michael & Marisa Frazier in November. Carefully hidden way upstate NY small breeder. Great bloodlines! 8 weeks ago we picked up for backing for breeder his half sister also coming 4yrs in July (sire side TB KrisS) she's got some talent. Both started by son, who's 16yrs old. She's for sale, has a brain, looks, easy going, talent and plenty of scope. Our guy just did his first BN schooling HT and won on dressage score of 28. Heading off to their first YEH competition this weekend. PM me if you would like details. There are plenty of quality smaller breeders in the U.S., you just have to look!
WillowHill Equestrian in Orange VA has some really nice horses by WB stallions out of TB mares. I have one of theirs just turned 2 that is wonderful and they do have a 3 yr old full brother to him among others. They have 2 fillies out of a mare that I leased and both would make super nice ammy type eventers. They just had the 3 year olds broken and so they are all nicely undersaddle...
GPD123: I think that much of the discussion here is occuring in a bit of a vacuum. You mentioned comparing prices in Europe, but that you could not afford the extra costs of shipping and quarantine tacked on to the sales price. What would you expect to pay in Europe for what you are looking for, and what is the basis for your knowledge there? Not nitpicking, but curious to know where the perspective is coming from. My sense is that a truly quality horse (i.e., one with UL potential) with good training is going to fetch a premium price regardless of location; Ireland might be an outlier in some circumstances, and the analysis may be different if you are not looking for something that can compete at the top of the sport. "Eventer" means different things to different people, so I am curious as to what type of horse you've targeted and what you would expect to pay for that horse. Without that information, it is hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison, or to know if you are being relalistic.
As I see it, in Europe and here, the price of a horse is impacted by five basic things:
1. Size. (most eventers want something between 16.1 and 16.3; smaller horses in particular will be more heavily discounted -- misguided, in my view, but nonetheless reality). We just sold a quiet, sensible 4-year old with terrific movement, a good jump, good manners, and quality training who placed 1st (BN), 4th (N)and 2nd (N) at her first three recognized shows for under $10,000. Why? Because she was barely 15hh, and thus the market for her was limited.
2. Quiet-ness. Call it sense, sanity, forgiving, quiet, or whatever, an "easy" 3-5 year old is going to fetch a premium, if only because there is a much larger number of people who can ride it, and a number of riders who have significant $$ to spend on a horse either cannot handle a more difficult ride, or simply have the luxury of paying so that they don't have to deal with a quirky or hot horse. The more difficult the ride, the smaller the market and the lower the price; the only exception is if the horse is so damn talented that a pro with backing can handle the ride yet doesn't mind paying a premium for the talent.
3. Identity of the seller: Bruce Davidson and Denny Emerson are simply going to be able to get more for the horses they sell. That is based upon a good reputation, their public successes, and to some extent the ego of purchasers -- who would not want to say they bought one of Bruce's horses? Current or former 4* riders who are selling horses will almost always have a larger market for their stock and will get more for what they sell. Buy from a smaller breeder, and the price will be lower.
4. Talent. In a 3-5 year old, assessing talent can be quite subjective. If a young horse moves like Totilas or jumps with perfect form, however, you are going to pay for that, even if the horse has not demonstrated that potential in a real-world show context. Potential drives up the price, even for buyers who have no hope themselves of maximizing that potential (this is where I believe many people act highly irrationally in horse buying).
5. Pedigree. This may affect breeders more than buyers (a breeder is going to LOVE the pedigree of the horse they just bred), but it does factor in. A horse sired by Mr. World Champion Stallion is just going to cost more.
What we see are people who want a young, uber-talented, good-sized, quiet and dead-broke horse for under $10,000. That beast rarely exists, if ever, no matter the location. Buy them at 3 before they are started and you'll get a discount. Buy the 15.2 horse and you'll get a discount (and probably be happier in the long run). Be realistic about your own abilities and don't overbuy on talent FOR YOU - get the Appendix QH that will pack you around Training level if that is all you aspire to. If you are good, tough, young enough to bounce, and can handle a hotter horse, you'll get a discount for that, too.
The uber-talented, quiet, well-trained horse that looks like a runway model is going to be expensive no matter where it comes from, even if it is only 3-5 year old. The reason is that someone will eventually pay top dollar for that horse, notwithstanding what the breeder-seller has already spent to produce the animal.
The buyers drive the market; breeders will be able to sell their objectively top-quality horse at a good price; they will also more often take a loss on a perfectly good horse that is less than objectively "ideal" in most instances. That less than ideal horse may be perfect for you, however, and you'll get a great deal on it.
To address your specific question, there are a growing number of people purpose-breeding for eventing in a thoughtful and considered way. A number of them post here -- Elizabeth Callahan (cngsporthorses), JER, BFNE, Wit's End, DeBracy, Fred all are dedicated event breeders, as are many of the other farms suggested here. Most will be reluctant to toot their own horns, but if you want a quality horse for a market price, those would be a good place to start.
PF: While I am actually looking for a youngster now, my thread was originally started because I am looking to base my business off of the production of young horses, to go on to the top of the sport or be sold if they don't have the goods (also buying some with the intention of resale). I have been to Ireland shopping, and know the prices over there compare to the prices over here. Yes, a nice horse is going to cost a lot no matter where it is. I think we have the same quality of horse over here, just was wondering where to look. What I have found is that you can see 15 four year olds, all of great quality, all about 25k, broke, jumping, and within 30 minutes of each other in Ireland. Here, you have to do a little more digging and while you can get a nice four year old for 25k, it's just more rare. My solution is that the very young horses are cheaper for the same quality, so to buy an annual crop of youngsters and then I have a steady flow of horses each year ready to be started.
There are some smaller breeders out there that do not produce a ton of babies but what they have is very nice. I have a friend who does Wbs with color and they are very nice but she only has babies every 2 years or so especially with the market..
Word of mouth sometimes is the best reference....
Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
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