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  1. #1
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    Jul. 31, 1999
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    I was watching the Adult Hunters at an AA show a few weeks ago and was horrified seeing the judge not watch a round! The VERY well known rider (something about peanut butter?) had a bad chip on his first fence and the judge just stared off across the areana for the rest of the round! It was the last round but there were only about 10 horses and I didn't really feel that the chip was bad enough to throw him completely out of the jog...And it at least deserved for the judge to pay attention! What do yall think about this? I mean, it was just a chip, not even a refusal or a stop!



  2. #2
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    Jul. 31, 1999
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    I was watching the Adult Hunters at an AA show a few weeks ago and was horrified seeing the judge not watch a round! The VERY well known rider (something about peanut butter?) had a bad chip on his first fence and the judge just stared off across the areana for the rest of the round! It was the last round but there were only about 10 horses and I didn't really feel that the chip was bad enough to throw him completely out of the jog...And it at least deserved for the judge to pay attention! What do yall think about this? I mean, it was just a chip, not even a refusal or a stop!



  3. #3
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    May. 15, 1999
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    Well Ben,
    That's personal judgement for you. I remember many years ago Sally Sexton was judging and she absolutely refused to watch my daughter. I worked myself up into a frenzy. I mean my protective mother genes were screaming. Then my daughter won the class. Sort of put the fire out of the engine. But, being me I decided to ask Ms. Sexton what exactly she was thinking.

    Well, she looked me straight in the eye and said, I didn't need to watch her she was clearly the best, all I had to do was pin the others.

    So, don't be so sure in your judgment, maybe there were other factors and with only 10 there were six that were just better. Judging is a really tough job, and I can't fault a judge who takes a few minutes off once the decision has been made and nothing can close the differences. Making decisions is their job, it's why they get paid.

    [This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 07-16-2000).]



  4. #4
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    Jul. 17, 2000
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    Grosse Pointe,MI / Tucson, AZ
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    what a very good reason to do the jumpers!



  5. #5
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    Jan. 23, 2000
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    I have trouble with the idea that nothing could possibly happen that would change the judge's mind, so it is safe to quit watching.

    A few weeks ago, my stepdaughter was competing on a wonderful horse, in the children's hunters. She hasn't ridden that horse long, and still sonetimes has trouble in the corners getting one lead change. She won the class, after really botching the change - twice. And not just a little bobble that you could miss if you sneezed or blinked.

    She didn't feel she should have won - there were several other really good riders. We didn't feel she should have won. But, she did.

    This weekend the judge missed someone miss her change after the last jump. So, I didn't win.

    There is always something that can happen. I know that judging is hard. But, to me, that doesn't mean that you should automatically quit watching during a round.



  6. #6
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    May. 28, 2000
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    MN
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    Well golly gee..I know how you feel.
    I remember once in a flat class that my friend was in.. The judge was reading a newspaper the whole entire class. This was at a "A" show. So we wondered how he was supposed to place them. It turns out the six who placed where the exact same who placed o/f...Even though some of those six had a very uneven flat round.
    Also in large classes with 100 or more rounds.. it can get tireing for a judge.. we often see them in the middle of the class reading because he/she has already chossen thier six. They occationaly look up to see if anyone else should be placed.
    Now this is why we always go last.. we love to screw up the order of the placings!!!



  7. #7
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    Jun. 21, 1999
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    With all the attention that is paid to showing respect for the sport and the judge by entering the show ring with a properly groomed horse, clean tack, and show attire etc.; I am still amazed that this kind of thing happens.

    Regardless of what the judge thought of the person's round, he/she owes the respect to the rider by staying until they complete the course.

    I have had the same thing happen to me. When I looked at the video in freeze frame to print some to computer images, I discovered that the judge wasn't even watching my horse go around. Now I knew that she wouldn't pin that day trotting the course and cantering out but what about respect for our effort? If we can show it so can they.
    \"The credit belongs to those people who are actually in the arena...who know the great enthusiasms, the great devotions to a worthy cause; who at best, know the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, fail while daring greatly, so that their



  8. #8
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    Oct. 5, 1999
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    Horses love to make liars out of you, so no matter how wonderfully a horse goes, there is still the possibility that a mistake will occur. I actually got pinned 3rd in a class in which I did not even enter! I had done the first round of the division for warm up, and pinned in both rounds! Go figure.

    I'd much rather have a judge do a super fast hack than let us go around and around without watching. I have a lot of respect for those judges who get down from their seats and come into the ring to judge a hack. I've even seen a judge step right in front of a horse to watch it jog at him.



  9. #9
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    Apr. 19, 2000
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    I can appreciate that it must be terribly difficult for a judge to pay absolute attention to every trip. I noticed at Culpeper this weekend that a judge occasionally took her eyes off a rider in order to write a comment.

    Would it help the judges if they had scribes to record comments?

    Might it help to have more than one judge as in other "subjectively" judged sports?
    ___________________________
    Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.



  10. #10
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    Jun. 23, 2000
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    One of my students was showing her pony at a show being judged by a very well known trainer/judge and whenever someone would make a mistake he would go back to reading his book untill the next pony came in.
    It must have been a REALLY good book lol.



  11. #11
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    May. 6, 1999
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    "I've even seen a judge step right in front of a horse to watch it jog at him."

    Really, Flash. Wow, that's great. I've never seen a hunter "judged" from anything other than the side, unless by accident. I wonder what impact that kind of technique, used consistently, would have? So many "lovely" movers wing and paddle so badly!
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.



  12. #12
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    Jun. 26, 2000
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    VA
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    A couple of thoughts here.

    In eventing, the judges always have scribes with them, at least at the bigger events. I assumed they did at the hunters. You know what happens when you assume ...

    Some of the problem with the judges attention wandering off is really the fault of the show organizers themselves. Someone mentioned a 100 horse division. When you have that many horses in a division there is no way you can have the attention span to pay attention that long. Also at a top show how would differentiate them. The solution is to limit class sizes. It is done in dessage and eventing, it can be done in hunters.



  13. #13
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    Feb. 18, 2000
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    Centreville, VA
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    EXACTLY!!!!!! The hunter's are so political it's sickening!!!!! But it's been going on like this for many, many years...and nobody can really do anything about it...in my opinion there isn't much challenge to it when the judging is like this...it really becomes no fun!!! Jumpers..you either do it or you don't...that's the bottom line!!! <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kangaroo:
    what a very good reason to do the jumpers!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



  14. #14
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    We were talking yesterday about this very thing. Last summer, my trainer took a bunch of people to a local show. During one of the hunter divisions, my trainer noticed the judge looking away from the ring, and politely informed her that there was someone in her ring doing a course, and shouldn't she be watching. The judge looked at her and replied "No, I've already seen them all ride before." Gotta love shows where one chip in the first class throws you out the whole day.



  15. #15
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    Jun. 18, 1999
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    I am a beginner judge, judging local shows. I am surprised no one ever watches horses from the front because I do.
    If I have two I really like, I often use that to separate them. The ability to move straight and true is important to me, actually as important as the side view, although that perspective does take priority.

    As far as the judge looking away after a mistake at the first jump, before I started judging I would have been upset by this. Now that I judge, I completely understand it. I do feel badly for the exhibitor who is paying for my opinion, but if the mistake puts the horse immediately out of contention, I have to save my focus for the others. Judging is exhausting, and I do find I have to pace myself a little. Looking away from a horse that is not going to get a ribbon gives me a brief minute to collect my thoughts, look at my card and prepare for the next round. It's probably not fair, but that's how I feel. I judged a ten hour day yesterday and was wiped out by the end of it. I spent 30 years on the A circuit, and never a day went by that I didn't complain about the judging, just like everyone else. Now that I am a judge, I would never complain again. I am finding out first hand how hard it is!



  16. #16
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    Don't they excuse riders in some of the larger classes if they make a major mistake? Like the eq finals where there are over 200 entries? I've seen some classes where the rider is excused after one refusal.



  17. #17
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    Jul. 31, 1999
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    Well, its good to know that I'm not the only one who's seen this before. I didn't think I would be...

    I mean, sure it was the last round of the division and I'm sure the judge had already made his decision, but thats beside the point! Its the general idea! What if, say this rider had gone to the steward and asked to speak to the judge about his round? The only thing the judge would be able to say is that "You had a chip on the first fence" because thats all he saw! He wouldn't be able to point out the better points of the round-say perfect lead changes or a very round jump!



  18. #18
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    May. 16, 2000
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    New Jersey, USA
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    Okay...I'm showing my age here....but I well remember when the junior hunter divisions were so huge that riders were automatically eliminated for major faults (or even not so major faults). I remember showing in the 70's at NC State Fair (yes Ben & Me, I AM that old!) and having a rail down in the second line - got bleeped (by a loud, obnoxious horn) and didn't even get to finish the course. Now this wasn't a BigEq finals - just a regular class in the division at a regular A show. Anyone else remember this?



  19. #19
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    Jun. 19, 1999
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Good to go:
    EXACTLY!!!!!! The hunter's are so political it's sickening!!!!! But it's been going on like this for many, many years...and nobody can really do anything about it...in my opinion there isn't much challenge to it when the judging is like this...it really becomes no fun!!! Jumpers..you either do it or you don't...that's the bottom line!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    DITTO! (that's why they invented jumpers! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] )
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.



  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben & Me:

    I mean, sure it was the last round of the division and I'm sure the judge had already made his decision, but thats beside the point! Its the general idea! What if, say this rider had gone to the steward and asked to speak to the judge about his round? The only thing the judge would be able to say is that "You had a chip on the first fence" because thats all he saw! He wouldn't be able to point out the better points of the round-say perfect lead changes or a very round jump!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ben, it is not the judge's job to teach a clinic, it is the judge's job to place the rounds in his or her order of preference. I would tell the rider, 'After the first fence, you were no longer in contention for a ribbon.' End of story. I Do try to keep an eye on the rider who is already out of the ribbons out of courtesy, but judging is tiring work and if I have a chance to go over my cards, get prepared for the next class or take an aspirin ;-), I am going to do it. As for the 100 entries, if there are over 49, the class must be split.



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