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  1. #101
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    So if I'm sitting in an uncomfortable chair I have a dis-ease?


    And a soldier standing at attention is dis-eased?
    Click here before you buy.



  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    It's still something you teach/advise, correct?

    So if I'm sitting in an uncomfortable chair I have a dis-ease?
    I you have hemorrhoids I'd say you'd be pretty dis-eased.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  3. #103
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    Or mal-area ... er.... mal-aria ...... malaria.



  4. #104
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    Well I am sitting on the fence in regards to homeopathy.

    How would we explain how radios, cell phones, etc work to someone from a past century?

    Deltawave - is that a gesture made by a sorority?

    No - I am sure it is from your scientific background. Just curious - what is your profession? I am sure it beats my fine arts degree!



  5. #105
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    Wow what an argument! Fwiw i had a mare with immune system issues that contracted a horrific case of pf. I had one of the top alternative medicine vets in the world see her when nothing else worked. Within 12 hours of giving my mare silicia per the percription the abcess was draining heavily, and dried up and was healing within days. This was after 2 months of this huge abcsess refusing to drain or heal. It was amazing.



  6. #106
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    last word from me (I think) ... I don't see that what I teach or do or don't do or don't teach is any of your business MistyBlue or Deltawave. I have a substantial long time client base and have new ones regularly; I've been in business for myself for many years. The horses are happy, are seen regularly by their own veterinarians, their humans are happy and I'm happy to be able to support my own herd and family. I've dealt with thousands of horses over the last 50 years with good results and in a varying capacity. You asked why you don't see questions from me here? Why on earth would I ask you questions, Delta? To be ridiculed or put down or told how ignorant I am that I don't already have the knowledge or answer? I have a bit more self respect than that, thank you, and its too bad that you don't hold the same respect for yourself as evident by your obvious need to be insulting and personally attacking others. I have my 'trusted' sources of information when I need counsel. It should make no difference to *you* who they are or even if I have any at all. Again, it's none of your business. But to be polite I feel obliged to address your "concerns". And no, I'm not angry. Nor am I frustrated or hurt or any other negative state of mind. Just wanting to post this for clarification. My business is not yours, nor MistyBlue's nor anyone else's. I've repeatedly said that I love discussing topics as its a great learning, motivating and thought provoking tool. But when it gets into personal and catty remarks that serve no purpose at all except to put down another person (whether it be me or anyone else) then there is nothing positive in it at all for anyone. We're far beyond the little junior high school cliques; or ... I would think we should be. Not interested in that. Never was and never will be. But I'll give you all this -- if addressing other people in the demeaning manner in which you do brings you some sort of feeling of security or self-satisfaction? Then by all means ... keep knocking yourself out. You do a tremendous job at it. *shaking head* -- I'm disappointed that a person of your level of maturity and stature seems to need this security blanket. But, not surprised. I will continue to respond to posts as *I* feel led to do so and will continue to be as respectful as I would hope others would be to me and each other. Some things never go out of 'style' - such as the Golden Rule. Things we all learned in kindergarten (but some seemingly have forgotten.) And as a post-script I still would like an answer to the question I *did* ask but to which I never received a direct answer. If energy cannot be destroyed, only changed, where does the energy from the original substance from which a homeopathic remedy is made, go? Perhaps there is someone else who can answer this as no one has yet seemed to be able to. Thank you.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    Wow what an argument! Fwiw i had a mare with immune system issues that contracted a horrific case of pf. I had one of the top alternative medicine vets in the world see her when nothing else worked. Within 12 hours of giving my mare silicia per the percription the abcess was draining heavily, and dried up and was healing within days. This was after 2 months of this huge abcsess refusing to drain or heal. It was amazing.
    I, too, have seen remarkable results in a number of severe cases (varying conditions) with the use of Silicea.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    Hey -- when in doubt go to the source. No better source than the Organon, written by Hahnemann, himself, from whom the study of Classical Homeopathy is achieved. You don't like it? *shrugs* ... to quote Delta,

    Not all homeopathic practitioners are alike, Delta ... just as not all Drs. are alike.

    Science vs. Homeopathy -- age old debate.
    Sure, go the source, however, like astronomy has proven the the Earth is not the center of the universe (contrary to the bible and other texts of the day) the original source has been proven wrong via modern science.

    Take the magnet discussion you chose to copy. He simply describes the paramagnetic properties of iron based on the electronic configuration of the atoms arranged in the unit cell structure. Simply heat the iron up above 1500 degrees F and the magnetism disappears!!!!! What happened to the mysterious "energy?!" Nothing. The FCC structured unit cell can not form the poles to sustain a magnetic field as the BCC and BCT structures can.

    So right there is a clear fallacy in the Organon. Thus, using a little logic, his anology to small pox becomes false given that modern science now has determined vial vectors etc. If we keep picking at this one thread of logic, much of the tapestry begins to unravel because the associations can no longer support the arguments for justification.



  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    And as a post-script I still would like an answer to the question I *did* ask but to which I never received a direct answer. If energy cannot be destroyed, only changed, where does the energy from the original substance from which a homeopathic remedy is made, go? Perhaps there is someone else who can answer this as no one has yet seemed to be able to. Thank you.
    What is this "energy" you speak of? You mean the kilocalories present in the less than one molecule of plant that remains in the remedy? Since we're talking about less than one molecule (okay, for discussion's sake, let's round up to one whole molecule), we're not talking about kcal--we're talking about fractions of calories. If this molecule even gets absorbed, it won't be absorbed intact--if it's a proteinaceous enzyme, for example, it will be absorbed in little chunks of 1 to roughly 3 amino acids. It will go to make other proteins in the horse's body. If it's a carbohydrate, it will be digested, either by the horse or by gut flora, and maybe can make a few ATP.
    In something the size of a horse or person or really any domestic species, a handful of ATP or amino acids means diddly.

    Reading these posts reminds me of an analogy. The original intent was to refute religion, but I think it actually fits better when talking about pseudoscience.

    From Science as a Candle in the Dark:

    "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage." Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

    "Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

    "Where's the dragon?" you ask.

    "Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

    You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

    "Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

    Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

    "Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

    You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

    "Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick." And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

    Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.
    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

    Former owner of the best Amish-carthorse-turned-eventer ever



  10. #110
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    There is no changing the stance of a dogmatic (and no, that is not an insulting term but if the shoe fits . . . ) so I guess we all are beating our heads against the collective wall. No need for more information, no need to question beliefs, no need to rethink conclusions, no need to consider alternative explanations. What a relief that would be--I can't how many horses I would have time to ride if all that pesky fact-checking, keeping up to date, digesting new evidence and all were no longer necessary!
    Click here before you buy.



  11. #111
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    Delta, you're right--I would save a lot of time if scientific literature didn't exist for me to read!
    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

    Former owner of the best Amish-carthorse-turned-eventer ever



  12. #112
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    Mar. 6, 2005
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    Here is a link to a company with remedies and Homeopathic nosodes (basically vaccines...FEI approved, too!)

    https://www.earthsongranch.com/Nosodes-c12.htm



  13. #113
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    FEI approved? Is that even a real designation? And if it is, what does it mean? It won't test? Of course it won't if there's nothing but water in it.

    Nosodes are NOT vaccines. Well, maybe if you took a vaccine and diluted it a million times. They might work similarly then.
    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

    Former owner of the best Amish-carthorse-turned-eventer ever



  14. #114
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    Of course homeopathics are in line with the FEI's "no foreign substance" rule . . . there is no foreign substance in them. One can put a rabbit's foot ini one's pocket at FEI events, too. The benefits and mode of action are the same.
    Click here before you buy.



  15. #115
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    Which type of energy are you referring to--mechanical, thermal, electrical, chemical, or electromagnetic?


    And why do you think that it "left" the original molecule of whatever it was that was being diluted? Maybe it's still there. Just not in the solution in question.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  16. #116
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    What happens to the energy of the plant, itself? Molecules are made up of cells which are made up of atoms which are made up of particles then quarks then more particles etc. -- all vibrating with energy. So what happens to that energy? It just goes away when a substance is diluted and succussed? Where does it go?
    um, have you ever actually taken a basic physics or chemistry class?
    asking this question reveals a profound level of ignorance about how the world works.

    the type of energy you're talking about stays with the molecules of course- it is part and parcel of them, it doesn't hang around after they leave. The homeopathy dilutions don't destroy anything or separate the energy from anything, it just dilutes them out until they aren't present in the final solution.

    If you take ten black marbles and mix that with 90 white marbles, that is 1x. Take ten of those at random- probably get one black marble, 9 white marbles. Mix those with 90 white marbles. That is 2x. Take ten of those at random- probably get all white marbles. Mix those with 90 white marbles- that is a 3X homeopathic solution. It has no black marbles in it. The black marbles are all still in existence, and have all of their own energy with them, they are just not in your cup full of marbles.

    go read the Wiki entry on homeopathy, it has a good section describing the dilutions that demonstrates how utterly stupid the concept is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy



  17. #117
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    Jul. 25, 2005
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    My take (and yes I am a scientist, and yes I have taken courses in quantum mechanics..) on homeopathy is that any drop of water out of your tap will have the same concentration of what ever it is you want than any homeopathic remedy. In fact the homeopathic water likely has NO molecules what so ever from what is the 'active' ingredient.

    My favourite example is this one:
    http://madartlab.com/2011/03/03/putt...o-perspective/

    And knowing basic quantum physical chemistry I am quite confident in not believing that water molecules have any capacity for 'memory'.



  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aven View Post
    Loved this.



  19. #119
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    An interesting read for the more 'scientifically minded" -- (excerpt) "According to these results, homeopathy has been put on a fundamental, scientific, physical basis."

    The full paper can be found here: http://hpathy.com/scientific-researc...etic-medicine/

    with other articles here: http://hpathy.com/scientific-research/

    Whether 'valid' or not? Draw your own conclusions. I'll not respond further on this.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  20. #120
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    Once again we have a citation pulled off Google (if you click it twice you get homeopathy crossword puzzles, LOL) which the poster has clearly not read and does not even remotely comprehend, and yet comes to a conclusion from the citation which is different from that of the authors themselves.

    Talk about missing marbles . . .
    Click here before you buy.



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