[Applesauce]

I sooooooooo don't get it. Would someone explain this to me? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

"Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." quote from the tv series M*A*S*H

[Medievalist]

It should say who placed the ad on the ad listings in the chronicle. It is usually near the back...

Je m'raconte des histoires; En écoutant sa voix
C'est pas vrai ces histoires; Mais moi j'y crois.
Mon mec Ã* moi
-Patricia Kaas
Centre Equestre de la Houssaye

[Flashy Gray]

When Coreene first started this thread, I went to the Favorites section and then the search engine to set up a link to the old threads.

Every time I typed in PVs name I got an error message. I haven't tried to type in "Hot Blood" or anything like that.

Anyone care to answer BGoose and 'Sauce's request? I just can't do it very succinctly.

[Moesha]

I had posted something about this earlier and then deleted it because I just hate this whole subject.

Honestly I have no opnion of the people involved. The courts and governing bodies made decisions and handed down what they deemed appropriate punishments, terms, fines, etc.

The end result is that beautiful, loyal and devoted horses. Who gave so much and asked for very little in return other then to be loved and cared for. Where brutally killed. They were electrocuted, suffocated, and had legs broken by crow bars....simply for money. Money they were worth on their insurance records.


It makes no difference to me whether the people involved who were found guilty are re-instated into the show world, frankly many already are and have large support and friends...that is fine I have no opinion whatsoever on it.

I would give anything to have my horse back, anything to know that as I type this he is coming in to eat, that after work when I drive up to the barn he will be waiting in his stall for his carrots and his favorite molasses treats. That he will be at the door when I cluck while turning on the barn lights and will be so happy to have his face curried with his favorite brush. I would give anything to ahve somehow fixed whatever was wrong several weeks ago...and yet I couldn't there was nothing that could be done.

So to me noble or valiant acts now can never, ever erase what happend. Those horses killed for their insurance claims were healthy and happy and nothing anyone can do now can take away the fear and suffering and horror they expereinced at the hands of people, people tehy trusted and would do anything to please.

So I do not care about the adds or the donations or this and that...because I couldn't do anything but be there for my horse to try to comfort him and let him now that everything was fine even though I know he was in so much pain and that I would never leave him....and these people choose to make there horses suffer horribly for money.

So frankly nothing they do makes any difference. If it helps other animals great and if they are welcomed back with open arms great, but it doesn't change what happened.

[Lisamarie8]

Mo, I just wanna hug ya.

You said it all perfectly.

--- And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?

[Erin]

The search isn't working right now... Infopop is working on it.

But we JUST had a big PV brouhaha thread not more than a few weeks ago. Really, people, there's nothing new to say here... when the search is working again, dig up the old threads if you want to know what the big stink is all about.

[Janeway]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
It makes no difference to me whether the people involved who were found guilty are re-instated into the show world, frankly many already are and have large support and friends...that is fine I have no opinion whatsoever on it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What an odd thing to say. You spend a few paragraphs saying how awful it is that these horses die and how wrong it was, then go on to say you have no opinion whatsoever? That makes no sense because obviously you do. Why are you afraid to admit it? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Bgooswood and anyone else, to answer your question, Paul Valliere is one of the individuals who was involved in the horse insurance killings that occured in the early 90's. The same ones that Barney Ward and George Lindeman were involved in. Mr. Valliere arranged (through Barney Ward I beleive) to have one of his "useless" horses killed for insurance money.

There used to be some great threads on this, but they seem to have disappeared. Either that or its my computer that is not working.

[Seven]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
The search isn't working right now... Infopop is working on it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just as an FYI....the search never seems to work for me any more at any time. If I don't get an error message, then I get results that have no words in them I was searching for and are not at all restricted to the date limitations I included. Even more irritating, no matter how restrictive I make the search, I get an error telling me the search is too broad. Not complaining...just letting you know so you can pass it along to Infopop.

****
New York Horse Rescue

[peepie]

WHY would COTH publish this ad? Certainly can't be THAT hard up for ad revenue? I don't know of any "anti-discrimination" laws in running ads! COTH should be ashamed?

My horse bucked off your honor student!

Founder: LOFL (lawn ornaments for life) clique

[Moesha]

janeway. I don't hink it is odd at all, I am saying the courts and the organizations we have given power to resolve these matters have handed down their punishments and decisions. That I simply am not interested now in how the people involved are received by anyone else...also because that is up to each individual at this point.

My only concern is for the horses.

I am not afraid to state any opinion of mine. I simply don't have on regarding how others should feel about the individuals involved. Again it is up to each person to decide.

[chrissy mackris]

im sorry for your loss, i lost my first horse, so i know how you feel
stay strong

*Tipperary*
AOL:zulu59
AIM:clm91284

[rockstarr]

gambit ...

actually, I don't think there's a publication in circ right now that isn't "hard up" for ad revenue. Things really stink right now.

But I think you raise an interesting point. Turning away controversial advertisers is not something many publications are interested in doing. When a pub starts basing revenue decisions on morality (or lack thereof) it gets tricky. Where would all of you BBers draw the line, if you were the boss?

Were I the publisher, I would have a really hard time accepting that revenue. But that's just me. It is a trade magazine for horsepeople. And he is a horseperson who, legally, has been cleared. Turning away that money would send a message that advertisers are judged by some criteria other than an ability to pay. Probably, his money is just as good as the next guy's.

The way that voices are heard in a situation like this, generally, is via subscriber action. Also at points of distribution. I encountered this quite a bit when I worked for a paper that accepted "adult" advertising. Angry readers wrote letters to the editor. Subscribers canceled. And newsstands refused to carry it. By the same token, the paper had many supporters.

So, in instances of outrage, a lot of tough questions need to be asked, in my opinion. Such as: Do you want to support the magazine that accepts that kind of advertiser (up to and including its online community)? Lots of interesting wrinkles with something like this. As always, I'm sure opinions will run the gamut.

[Coreene]

Very rarely, but I can think of three in the last five years.

[Dementia 13]

That's why I think this thread is a good thing - rather than just rehashing the whole PV mess, rockstarr has raised an interesting ethical point that I would be interested in hearing opinions on.

[Heidi]

Were ads accepted, or denied, for that matter, on the grounds of a moral standard (and who's, BTW), I don't imagine that many print publications would survive.

Paul Valliere's ad or a celeb's line of linens, sewn by 9 year old children in India under deplorable conditions? Barney Ward or Mike Miliken, who bankrupted and destroyed countless Americans...

[Tobi]

the fact that 3 different posters with thousands of posts between them don't know who PV is, is reason enough to bring this issue up again!!

the truth must be retold while there are still horse people out there who don't know what the dark side of human nature can do.

just the mention of any of the people involved turns my stomach!!

[jr]

I thought the ad was ridiculous (along with the previous version awhile ago). If you have to post an ad to say you haven't killed any horses lately...

It amazes me that people still go to him for coaching. How ironic, if you need him to help prepare you for the ASPCA Medal class....then you're missing the point of the entire class aren't you?

[BNP]

I would like to know WHO is the "we" that is thanking him? Did those people buy the ad? Did PV buy the ad and "imply" that some other more important folks are "thanking him"? The whole subject reeks. Throw money on it and it will all go away. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

[HeyYouNags]

It's not a COTH topic, but here's a listing of what he and others were convicted of, and their sentences:

indictments

[armandh]

http://www.horsenews.com/break/mayjune97/indict.htm
note last line.... must have affirmative proof