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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2000
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    Default Man Shoots 6 of His Neighbor's Horses for Wandering Onto His Property

    Looks the bad result of a dispute between two neighbors out in the country and the horses ended up being dead because of it.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/AP2cc1...2a5e7e547.html

    NEW BERLIN, N.Y. — State police say a 75-year-old upstate New York man has been charged with fatally shooting six of his neighbor's horses after they wandered onto his property.

    Troopers say Lauren McMaster likely shot the horses Saturday after they wandered onto his land in the rural Chenango County town of New Berlin, 50 miles southeast of Syracuse.

    Police say they arrested McMaster Sunday and charged him with criminal mischief and cruelty to animals.

    Troopers say McMaster used a 12-gauge shotgun to kill the horses. Police say he and the horse's owner had a long-standing dispute over the neighbor's horses and cows wandering onto McMaster's property.

    McMaster is being held in the Chenango County Jail on $500 cash bail. It couldn't immediately be determined if he had a lawyer.
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier



  2. #2
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    Dec. 13, 2005
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    Default

    Wonder if he'll try and use a "stand your ground defense"?



  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    Wonder if he'll try and use a "stand your ground defense"?
    No, he'll likely claim the horses were damaging his property.

    The Stand Your Ground defense has been totally misrepresented in the popular press. Intentionally, IMO. It has no place here. I don't understand why it's even mentioned.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  4. #4
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    Aug. 10, 1999
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    Ireland & sometimes the US ;)
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    Default

    OK, while I don't think ANYONE should SHOOT horses, I will weigh in on the "other" side.

    It IS the horse owner's responsibility to keep the boundary fences in tact. YES, I KNOW that is difficult, but if you have a longstanding problem with your neighbor (as it appears the owner and the shooter had), then you need to be uber careful!! Do a double row of fencing with a laneway in between - use ELECTRIC or barbed wire (ESPECIALLY if you also have cows!!), but DO IT. DOUBLE fencing give you a path on which to ride as well as an extra guarantee against escape artists and jumpers.

    I KNOW how much work and pain keeping your fencing up to date is - believe me! But, keeping your animals safe is also critical. IMHO, double fencing with cattle guards at the base of all driveways is the only way to go.

    My heartfelt condolences to the owner (regardless of this vent).
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    No, he'll likely claim the horses were damaging his property.

    The Stand Your Ground defense has been totally misrepresented in the popular press. Intentionally, IMO. It has no place here. I don't understand why it's even mentioned.

    G.
    Stand your ground is a law that wasn't needed.

    And damaging his property is not a reason to shoot someone's horses. This also is a solution that wasn't needed.

    A gun is not an answer to solve problems.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2006
    Location
    Plainview, MN
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    Default

    I feel bad for the horses, but it is the horse owner's responsibility to keep them fenced in and I don't think the property owner was out of line for shooting livestock that had repeatedly strayed onto his property. Perhaps if the horse's owner could not keep them fenced in this was a better fate than getting on the road and getting hit by a car.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
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    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
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    Default

    I wonder if there was any fencing. It seems like a lot of people aren't putting it up and it leads to things like this. That guy whose barn burned down with the horses inside as part of an apparent hate crime had not one board of fencing on his property and anyone could drive a car all over it or even walk from the town through his yard and right up into his barn, which he apparently didn't even bother to keep secure. Some people just have no sense.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    I wonder if there was any fencing. It seems like a lot of people aren't putting it up and it leads to things like this. That guy whose barn burned down with the horses inside as part of an apparent hate crime had not one board of fencing on his property and anyone could drive a car all over it or even walk from the town through his yard and right up into his barn, which he apparently didn't even bother to keep secure. Some people just have no sense.
    Was that the gay person in OH? I always thought it was more than a hate crime
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2002
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    1,618

    Default

    What are the fencing laws in New York? Many states are considered fence out states (mostly western states I think?) In other words if you don't want your neighbors livestock on your property, then you have to fence them out.

    Personally I can't imagine just letting my horses run around loose. I would want them fenced onto my property, even if I lived out on a huge ranch in the middle of nowhere, I would want to know they were not wandering onto someone elses land.

    I wouldn't be able to shoot someones horse wandering on my property (unless it was causing physical harm to one of my horses) but I know how frustrating having someone elses livestock wandering on your property can be. I live in a fence out state and when I was growing up we lived in a very rural area and people would just turn their livestock out. We had property damaged from cattle wandering through and were constantly chasing them off.



  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    No, he'll likely claim the horses were damaging his property.

    The Stand Your Ground defense has been totally misrepresented in the popular press. Intentionally, IMO. It has no place here. I don't understand why it's even mentioned.

    G.
    cause he's an anti gun nazi silly

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  11. #11
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    Nov. 18, 2004
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    Catonsville, MD
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    Default

    Even if the horses' owner was an irresponsible twit, doesn't make shooting the horses right. I also wonder if the local cops were insufficiently responsive to complaints over the problem. That would make them culpable too.

    Sickening and unnecessary.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09




  12. #12
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Default

    long standing dispute over the animals getting out...oye veh....

    Seems like the neighbor is claiming victim.
    6 horses...the fences must be like swiss cheese.

    As to shooting horses with a shotgun....sounds messy to me, not like a clean kill.


    And the 'stand your ground' defense....7 you should write for Law&Order! DH and I always look forward to the 'SAR', smart a$$ remark at the beginning of the show!

    The old man forgot the integral part of the SSS method: shovel and shut up...
    (though it seems it would have been less involved to use the method on the useless neighbor?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    Even if the horses' owner was an irresponsible twit, doesn't make shooting the horses right. I also wonder if the local cops were insufficiently responsive to complaints over the problem. That would make them culpable too.

    Sickening and unnecessary.
    we have neighbors who last year intentionally turned their dairy goats out on our planted growing corn fields....they cost me about an acre of yield...or in non corn grower terms,$781
    their "defense" was "well you have 499 more acres anyway"

    that day trust me,some dairy goats were very close to meeting their Maker.And Himself told them so.

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    long standing dispute over the animals getting out...oye veh....

    Seems like the neighbor is claiming victim.
    6 horses...the fences must be like swiss cheese.
    As to shooting horses with a shotgun....sounds messy to me, not like a clean kill.
    not with slugs.That would be a pretty clean kill even at distance...buckshot would be the same but not so much with bird shot

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGoose View Post
    What are the fencing laws in New York? Many states are considered fence out states (mostly western states I think?) In other words if you don't want your neighbors livestock on your property, then you have to fence them out.
    Laugh, we are talking NY here. Unless Chenango county is way different than the counties I am in (which I do not think it is), we most certainly need to contain our animals here.

    Sad for the horses. Them getting shot sounds like the fault of their owner.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
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    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    long standing dispute over the animals getting out...oye veh....

    Around here there is always a team of horses getting loose at sometime. One night coming home ( 1:00 AM), I woke an Amish farmer up because his draft team was loose and walking down the road. I recognized the horses. Took us about 30 minutes to get them back at the barn.

    Seems like the neighbor is claiming victim.
    6 horses...the fences must be like swiss cheese.

    Sounds like this guy didn't have any adequate fence either.

    As to shooting horses with a shotgun....sounds messy to me, not like a clean kill.


    And the 'stand your ground' defense....7 you should write for Law&Order! DH and I always look forward to the 'SAR', smart a$$ remark at the beginning of the show!

    What about the rider and horse that constantly trespasses on property to ride? Ok to shoot the rider, the horse or both?

    The old man forgot the integral part of the SSS method: shovel and shut up...
    (though it seems it would have been less involved to use the method on the useless neighbor?)


    Six horses you'ld need a big hole.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL
    Sounds like this guy didn't have any adequate fence either.
    Um, the guy does not have to have fencing. They are not his horses.


    Making an endless list of what if stories about shooting various things really does not make you seem overly sane.



  18. #18
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    that's why I said it might have been more cost effective to shoot the owner.
    One bullet and a smallish hole.

    I think the horse owner needs a lesson in fencing...I am sure Home Depot has something like that for cheap or free...


    And no, I don't think the horses were at fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  19. #19
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    Dec. 13, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    cause he's an anti gun nazi silly

    Tamara
    Not a nazi anything...

    Also not anti gun, I am ANTI STUPID. This was not the proper way to solve a trespass issue.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    This was not the proper way to solve a trespass issue.
    I doubt anyone would disagree with this.



    It sounds like the idiot horse owner felt the old guy should just have to put up with their horses..... He appears to have given up and dealt with them on his own.


    I admit, I am not getting the animal cruelty thing. That charge just does not make sense.



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