Cheers, this was very well written. and the COTH Moderators do deserve more respect and thanks. I do appreciate all the time they dedicate to the forums.
Regarding all the other head-achy things discussed so far, I agree that this is a community, and should be treated as one.
I don't disagree with what Colin, Miniwelsh, or Rockstarr had to say. In fact, I believe as they did, that certain people on this list get away with bending the rules more than others. Heck, I realized that the first day I visited this board. Real life is like that, so wouldn't it be a little naive to expect this board to be any different? I also have no doubts that Colin, Miniwelsh, and Rockstarr are great individuals.
However, I don't agree with the manner in which they expressed their opinions. Colin's was a little more out there for everyone to see, but yesterday I guess that not many of you saw either the thread that Merlin mentioned where a moderator's name was slurred in an offensive and derogatory manner in the title or the other two posted around the same time by the same authors that were deleted quickly after they appeared, but I did. And I don't care if you are Mother Theresa herself, nobody has the right to expect to post something like that and not have to pay the consequences. It wasn't a matter of disagreeing, it was a matter of being disagreeable.
A dog has one master, a cat has an entire staff.
If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?
Amen Canterlope. I too was here for the short time in which one of the moderators name's were posted in a derogatory manner and frankly, I was shocked by the audacity. I have had the pleasure of meeting Miniwelsh in person briefly and was struck by what a beautiful, nice, and caring individual she seemed to be. BUT there's no way she could have posted that without knowing that she was going to be adding fuel to the fire. Therefore, I'm not suprised she was kicked off. I applaud that certain moderator for maintaining her cool and simply changing the title herself.
Now as always I'll play the mediator. There will always be differences of opinions about what happened in November or even what happened yesterday. That's life! Agree to disagree but let's stick to the whole point that ETBW was trying to say.
People, THINK before you post. Be conscious of the other people that will read your posts and lets keep this a pleasant community and remember the reasons why we all love it here. We all share a passion for horses, learning, our virtual family, and obviously computers.
The rules are simple. Keep it horse/BB related. Remember the reasons why you got addicted to this BB in the first place and if you don't like a certain thread's title simply don't read it or leave.
Remember that being a member here is a privilege, not a right.
Truth is a funny thing. It seems like it should exist but it doesnâ€™t.
Remember, there is more to every story than you know.
Also, you canâ€™t inflict all of the â€˜rulesâ€™ all of the time. Life doesnâ€™t work that way because that way doesnâ€™t work.
Thank God for the Moderators, and thank them for putting up with us.
I fail to see what rules rockstarr and miniwelsh really broke. I do see that they had dissenting opinions from the moderators, and from many of the more 'popular' members of this board, but that's about it. And I see that they voiced them. And it's no reason to ban ANY OF US.
I am not pleased that Erin banned them, and certainly not in the way she did it. Furthermore, to publically disclose the frequency at which rockstarr, or ANY of us, consult this BB (which Erin did) is reprehensible, and perhaps even actionable? (what if, for instance, rockstarr's boss got ahold of that kind of info!) In any case, I am disgusted.
I was seriously unimpressed with the text written to ban them. Paid or unpaid, volunteer or not, the moderators are representing The Chronicle of the Horse, acting on it's behalf, and should act accordingly at all times.
I was disgusted by the first set of arguements at the end of last year, and am now appalled.
[This message was edited by 3eme on Jan. 17, 2003 at 07:57 AM.]
This thread was started yesterday, and there has been strong criticism of both the moderators in general and in their handling of the latest "incident" (which I've missed entirely, as I was not online yesterday--sounds like a doozy!!).
However, this thread has not been locked, you have not been banned, and the only official response you have gotten is an explanation (reasonable, IMO) as to why the moderators did not get to the offending thread immediately and a request to let the past be the past.
So perhaps the moderators are not playing favorites, nor arbitrary, nor excessively authoritarian. Perhaps the difference is that you are expressing your opinion in a reasonable fashion.
lamrok lad - Where did I say that the moderation on this board is inadequate? Nowhere. I simply disagree with how rockstarr and miniwelsh were dealt with. Nor was I talking about the offensive x-rated thread around which the whole issue was centered. I am simply stating my displeasure in two members being banned in the manner, and for the reasons, that they were. Perhaps you might go back and read the whole story from the other threads before commenting as you did!
"disagreeing and disagreeable"? I think that is the crux of the issue.
I did not read the offending thread, nor did I read or see the one which used the moderator's name in an offensive manner, so I can't comment specifically about that. But I can say that no one should go out of their way to be offensive.
sometimes we are all that way, or someone will take it that way, and we all have the option to go back, delete, explain or for Heaven's sake, apologize!
3ieme in your post you used the words "disgusting" at least twice and "reprehensible". You are free to express your opinions, but in my opinion, those are very 'loaded' words. And I disagree with you. Erin was making a point. and she had a right to make it.
She was simply pointing out that the people who were supposedly so disgusted with this BB, and boycotting it, were in fact using it a great deal.
I also like to come to this bb because it is NOT backstabbing and petty and meanminded - like, sadly, so much of the world and the horse world in particular. I thought what happened back in Nov was disgusting on the part of that person. and I for one I am getting tired of seeing her name brought up as some sort of martyr for free speech and dissent. Save it. Dissent is one thing, mean minded shit disturbing is another.
Unlike ETBW, who is a much kinder person than I am, I won't miss the people who have been banned. I am tired of pettiness, and the constant moderator-baiting that was demonstrated. This is nothing personal - I have enjoyed the posts by these people in the past, but they just couldn't let it go.
It seems to be that it takes a lot to really piss off Erin, and her email title 'catherder' is an appropriate one. She is a strong person, and expresses herself in a strong, forthright but also very fair way. I respect that. I don't respect mean, petty crap.
Favouritism? I don't think that exists. I think the moderators get a feel for the person posting, and some posts may be a bit out of line, but generally that person is a positive member of the BB, contributing on a number of different topics,and they let it go.....
we can all get out of line sometimes....even ETBW??! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif (I'm shocked!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
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Ditto and double ditto.
I have a different "spin" on those folks just being unable to "let it go"...
The failure to understand the flow of authority,
and (as stated in the Serenity prayer) the wisdom to recognize what is in their control and what is not and the grace to accept it.
This board is NOT a democracy...IT IS A PRIVILEDGE PROVIDED EXCEPTIONALLY GENEROUSLY BY THE CHRONICLE FOLKS AND IN CASE I HAVEN'T SAID IT LATELY, THANKS, ERIN! You do a great, although not perfect job. http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif Last time I checked, I'M NOT PERFECT EITHER.http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...ilies/sigh.gif
Again, I, for one, have no problems with the fact that Miniwelsh and Rockstarr had dissenting opinions. I also have no problems with the fact that they voiced them. However, it is the manner in which they voiced them that gives cause for concern.
When all of this started, despite requests to take it private, both Rockstarr and Miniwelsh continued to publically push the issue in, IMVHO, a snide and hurtful manner. At one point, they even taunted the moderators, telling them to go ahead and ban them.
Then, after not posting to the BB for over a month, they resurfaced again and publically picking up where they left off. Unfortunately, you can not go back and read the posts that untimately led to them being banned because they were deleted within minutes of appearing on the BB. But, if they were still here, I think it would be reasonable for anyone to see that they were clearly over the line and justified the actions of the moderators.
As far as the manner in which Erin chose to publically ban them, it may have not been the best way to handle the situation to post it in a message for all of the board members to see. However, Miniwelsh and Rockstarr left that door wide open when they refused to take it private. They were treated no better or no worse than the way they themselves treated the moderators. It's like that old saying, "If you walk like a duck and quack like a duck, don't be surprised if you get treated like a duck."
And I am not, repeat, am not calling into question Rockstarr's and Miniwelsh's character or if they are caring compassionate human beings. I am sure they are truly remarkable individuals. However, the manner in which they chose to represent themselves on this BB overshadowed their finer human nature. Who a person is and how they behave are often time polar opposites. I'm sure I would like both of them if I knew them personally, but I just don't agree with their recent behavior on this BB. They continued to stir the pot in a manner that not only was unnecessary, but hurtful and clearly outside of the rules that we all agreed to when we joined this BB as well. If that is not sufficient grounds for being banned from this board, I don't know what is.
A dog has one master, a cat has an entire staff.
If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?
The post that I started was deleted. The one with the title "On Topic: deletion of inappropriate thread" where I stated that I thought the contents of that thread called for it's deletion. I don't see how I was particularly disagreeable.
Interestingly enough, it wasn't deleted until Miniwelsh posted on it.
Initially, having only seen Miniwelsh and Rockstarr's posts on the thread, I really thought Erin was being VERY heavy handed. And I didn't like it. Not because I think they weren't off base, but because if *seemed* out of the blue and un-called for.
I didn't see the other thread they started (that Merlin referred to)... but my slightly shaken faith (sorry guys) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif in the moderators has been restored. I realize they do a lot of work for us, and though I don't always agree with their decisions, they are within a range of acceptable actions (in my own mind) to deal with a problem.
I had worried (unnecessarily as it turns out), that the moderating had strayed too far to the cautious side.
This will be my only post on the subject, as I think its time to let it go. But, I agree with ETBW's sentiments about needed to exercise some self-restraint. And I echo the many members' expressions of thanks to the moderators, for doing a thankless job.
I would only add that we should consider that perhaps none of us know as much about these "situations" as the moderators do. As much as we might feel we "live" on this BB, I suspect the moderators are more in tune with the total body of instances that inform their decisions, and very few, if any, of us are in a completely educated position to question their decisions.
In any event, accepting their decisions is one of the rules we play by, so we better accept it or go play somewhere else.
"One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine
First of all, I agree with Fred's last post. Thank you, Fred!
My problem is with the "Freedom of Speech on the BB at ALL COSTS" partisans. Even if it means keeping hurtful things on the BB. Guess what? Self-moderation = self-censorship = a small price to pay to make this a pleasant place.
Everytime I think of RolexH's family logging on in late November expecting to see this wonderful selfless outpouring of support and instead reading some of the cruel and mean-spirited posts that came up - well, it just makes my stomach turn. And there is no defending it.
Earlier this week there were (and still are) posts on the HJ Board that are meant to only stir the pot - and they're not gone yet. Why not?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But, when people annoy me (even if I should not be annoyed) it is always fun to start an old fashioned board war...
...I haven't started this good of a board war since the 'Nylon Tack is a disrespect to the judge' war on AOL... that got a whole board taken away <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What makes those threads reprehensible is that they involve a smug pride in administering all manner of questionable pharmaceuticals to horses because "everybody does it"; a nonchalant attitude toward continuing to jump sore horses; a spiteful joy at upsetting other BBers who were genuinely trying to be helpful; disrespecting great horsepeople like DMK, Saddlefitter, creseida, etc.; and what's worse: a lot of BBers who I once respected (but no more) posted big kudos on another thread to this person, like it was all some big joke.
Again: self-moderation = self-censorship = small price to pay to keep the BB a nice place. I don't want people here who's only goal is to upset others, with lovely sentiments like:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you believe everything other people say then go join hitler.. or something.
And if these types persist in spewing garbage, I want them out of here ASAP and I don't want to read ad nauseum posts holding them up as "Free Speech Martyrs."