You've revealed yourself as one of those people that are smart enough to understand what political correctness is and how to incorporate it into your behaviour but you're clueless as to the whys. I'd even go further to suggest, that you feel that you've somehow had to make some sacrifice in the name of being decent.
Well, here's the deal Bob. The right of somebody else to express themselves is pretty fundamental (and is guaranteed by your country's constitution). What's more, it doesn't cost you anything. You haven't made any sacrifice.
And so I throw your question back at you, why do you care?
BobO- Where in ANY of Jair's post on this thread was he blatanly sexual? I have yet to find them, and I have read every single one. Okay we're going to do a role reversal here. Did you complain once during the ENTIRE thong thread? No that to me was more scandalous than this thread lending support to a very troubled young man. Why was the thong thread okay and this one wasn't? Because it discussed homosexuality? Double standard much?
Jair I commend you for posting this, it took guts and compassion. The glb community is very lucky to have you. I also know what you mean about not all gay guys are "limp wristed flower arrangers", although I've met more than a few of those. My BEST friend and surrogate father is openly gay. When I first moved my horse to his barn before I knew him I really didn't know one way or the other. I was confused because I knew that he had three kids, but that he also owned a gay bar. Being naive, It didn't occur to me that gay men could have kids before coming out. It did occur to me that a straight man could own a gay bar though. Another reason was that he is the most masculine man I have ever met in my entire life.
I'm sad to say that I will never get to meet his significant other in this life as he was killed three years before I met Jim.
Now, I work in the aforementioned bar and I LOVE it, I wouldn't trade the experience and the people I've met in there for the world.
*Virtual Bear Hug*
\"In all manners of opinion, our adversaries are insane.\" Mark Twain
Bobo, what is the deal with you? How can you say that Jair is self-aggrandizing? Looking for a pat on the back? Please! He was only looking to help a young kid realize that he was not the only one in the world who had it rough.
That you would find fault in this surprises me. And there is an old saying...Thou dost protest too much....
\"in the wind, and rain, looking for the sun..................\"
Guess you haven't been around this BB very much BobO. Or you would have read some the very eloquent threads prior to this one!!!! Jair is NOT back patting, but helping. Our society in general, is homophobic. So BobO does the shoe fit?
I have been away from the computer all day, so I didn't see your latest post until just now, BobO. Pretty much everything has been said, but I do want to add my voice to all of those telling you that you have made a pretty rude and stupid statement.
Sometimes it is best not to speak, if you don't know the person you are talking about. Take the time to read some of those past posts others have mentioned. Then maybe you'll get an idea of what kind of person Jair really is!
Let us not seek the Republican answer or the Democratic answer but the right answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past - let us accept our own responsibility for the future.
I do not use PC except to show how rediculouse it is .
You all are SO PC. You are as ... I stopped myself on that old comment.
You all say Freedom of speach BUT only if its PC and you THINK Gay is PC.
Just read the negatives you just posted and look for MY freedom of speech, my freedom to disagree.
And Hayden, do not get brain soaked by these bleeding heart .... Your only gay if YOU say you are.
Toronto, a city that\'s not won a Stanley Cup in my damned lifetime
It is sad BobO that you equate compassion and kindess, concern for one's fellow (wo)man, as a capricious social trend, interpreted by you as a verbal straight jacket.
I mean, BobO, it would be just as easy for me to assert, on the mere basis that you are a straight 50-something man, that you are fat, bald, your old bones inhibit you from riding well, resentful, desparately mourning a lost youth; and probably in need of Viagra. Just as you assert, from Jair's original post, that he is gratuitously flaunting his homosexuality, bragging and engaging in 'uncivil' behaviour.
I hope the above was acceptably non-PC for you BobO. I'm a just following your lead BobO! And thank god that being non PC also comes with it compelete disreggard for sppellinge.
We are not PC. We are caring people, who know that other caring people should be accepted for their goodness and caring and compassion for others. We really don't see that who you love is anywhere near as important as THAT you love someone.
It wouldn't really hurt, BobO, to feel some compassion for others, to really care about them as people. You do have freedom to speak - and to disagree with our thoughts ... but not to be rude or crude. There are people here who feel strongly about a variety of things, who disagree with each other, but have found a way to have a civil dialog. All we ask is that you do the same.
Mal:This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then .... explode
LMAO!! (I don't have much of one so maybe I should not laugh too hard.)
You are entirely correct. You do have the right to free speech. Just as much as we do. (I hope your free speech is spoken better than it is typed.)
And what is this theory that you are only gay if you say you are? Please, no one can be that ignorant. Homosexuality is neither a choice nor a disease. It just is. If you don't like it, too bad. Homosexuality is never going to go back into the closet. My suggestion, DEAL WITH IT!
About the politically correct issue, I was once young and stupid and believed I did not need to be "PC". All I can say is that at some point in your life you will realize the error of that philosophy.
Bob, you and I have met in person, and I like you and your wife very much. But I strongly disagree with you very much on this issue.
I asked you to post something supportive on the Hayden thread because I thought it would be good for him to have additional support and input from a straight male who rides hunters and jumpers, and I do appreciate that you did that. I asked you to become involved not knowing this is how you felt about the topic, and that is my fault.
The only reason this subject is being discussed on these boards is because of the situation with a young teen who expressed his extreme confusion and doubts about himself, arising in part because of his love for horses and hunters, and the fact that it is a sport largely dominated by females and not treated as a "guy's sport" by other teen agers in this country. Jair was trying to be supportive, and I personally very much appreciate his efforts and caring.
As I just posted on another thread, this is not going to become a gay and lesbian BB. It is and shall remain a horse BB. We most certainly have differences, even profound differences, in our feelings on any number of topics outside of horses. But we do love our horses and our sport, so whatever our other differences we have that in common.
Please, don't let this thread degenerate into name calling and social debate, away from the caring purpose for which it began.
"I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry
I think, BobO, that if you take the time to understand the caring and compassionate attempt Jair made at helping an obviously self-doubting teenager, you will find the meaning behind his post to be very different from what you assumed. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way as I do, because I've found this thread, and its precedents, to be very informative and they shined some much-needed light onto a misunderstood "taboo" subject.
Yes, you do have freedom of speech. So do Jair, Hayden, and everyone else involved. I noticed, also, that you sort of "bleeped out" the word "sex" in your original post. It isn't a dirty word, and perhaps that is where the American public gets its fear of homosexuality in general. Perhaps if we actually made an EFFORT to understand it, we wouldn't hate it, fear it, or find any dirtiness in it. What message are we sending kids like Hayden if we start censoring out such important issues? Just a thought.
Jair- You're really cool, you know that? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Leaving ALL mention of sexual orientation out of this...Why is it so hard to lend a helping hand or heart to someone who obviously needs it? BobO, I am shocked at your viewpoint...Not that you don't have a right to feel anyway you want about this issue of gay straight whatever AND you have the right to voice the same on this BB or any other, you DID NOT have a right to completely humiliate and degrade a person, esp a kid, when he is asking for a little help and compassion. You don't HATE the sinner, you hate the sin...Since you were being so militant I might add that a militant "anything" is offensive..esp one that has such a "holier than thou" attitude about what is and is not the correct way to live one's life. I am really shocked at your point of view. And kind of sorry for you. You must be a lonely person standing alone out there on that tall pillar of moral superiority.
The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.
\"in the wind, and rain, looking for the sun..................\"
Once again Portia, you are the voice of reason. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I for one have never been PC, and don't care to be labeled. Hmmmmm, does that sound familiar? And yes, freedom of speech is something we all are entitled to BobO, along with the rest of the constitution.
Just felt your verbage could have been written in a less argumentative tone. But if thats the way you want to be, then so be it. Adios
BobO, you are really rude! Everyone IS entitled to freedom of speech, but one would think that an educated adult would have enough sense to be polite. True, you can say whatever you want, but what you have been saying only makes you look really ignorrant. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]
OMG! I leave for two business days and all Gay Heck breaks loose! As Madonna said in her "SEX" book, "I felt like I was in the movie 'Shampoo' and I only had a small part!"
Great post Jair! Thanks to everyone else for their kind words. I am still curious if Hayden ever resurfaced. I sent him an email message Wednesday night before I left but never heard anything.
As horsemen and horsewomen - of both sexual identities - we share a really common passion and bond ... horses. So I think if we can all offer honest support to each other where our horses are concerned, we should be able to offer it to each other where ourselves are concerned.
BobO - I think you likely missed the point of Jair's OP - that it's OK for a person to be gay and that it's OK to seek out other people to talk to. Jair made himself accessible and that was a very generous and admirable thing to do.
p.s. I'm accessible too!
When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.