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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2001
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    Fairfax
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    1,704

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    Sorry, but I still dont get your position. So you don't mind that you are on the hook as the owner if they show the horse improperly on medication? Or that you might be on the hook if they fail to pay your show bills? Or if the horse injures someone, you are liable as owner? Or a trainer comes after you for unpaid bills or fees? Or if the horse were to pass away, you are lut the balance?

    To each his own, but you have assumed a great deal of risk with no real reward. The most common purchase on time agreements allow you to avoid this problem entirely. You sell the horse, and hold a note for cash payment with the horse as collateral. If the fail to pay, you get the horse back. But ownership transfers so that you aren't exposed to the liabilities of owning a horse not in your immediate care.

    Good luck.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2010
    Posts
    385

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    USEF records have no bearing on risks and liabilities. Our purchase contract is the legal document that states that the purchaser assumes risks and responsibilities of ownership. The purchaser is required to hold loss insurance payable to me for at least the amount that is owed. I have proof that this insurance is in force.

    I don't care if USEF lists the purchaser as owner as long as it is recorded that money is owed. I want to be able to easily rescind USEF's transfer of ownership if the purchaser defaults and I need to sell the horse to someone else. This is an issue encountered by others, which is why USEF has a protocol for it. Too bad they're not so good at following it.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2001
    Location
    on the road.....again
    Posts
    1,820

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle Mom View Post
    USEF records have no bearing on risks and liabilities. Our purchase contract is the legal document that states that the purchaser assumes risks and responsibilities of ownership. The purchaser is required to hold loss insurance payable to me for at least the amount that is owed. I have proof that this insurance is in force.

    I don't care if USEF lists the purchaser as owner as long as it is recorded that money is owed. I want to be able to easily rescind USEF's transfer of ownership if the purchaser defaults and I need to sell the horse to someone else. This is an issue encountered by others, which is why USEF has a protocol for it. Too bad they're not so good at following it.
    However, if you are still listed as owner of the horse with USEF and they bounce a check and fail to make it good to a horse show. That show will turn them over to USEF and YOU as horse owner are also held liable for the money due the show. Your contract might get you out of the mix, however, the horse would still be suspended until the payment was made (a horse that you still own).

    Or if the horse would test positive for a forbidden substance (and every horse at a USEF show is legible to be drug tested even it if never shows!) you as USEF owner of the horse would be held accountable. Your contract "might" get you out of responsibility but you would spend energy having to get yourself out of the problem.

    Unless you specifically told them in writing that they could not transfer the ownership until the final payment was made, IMO, they did nothing wrong and really did you a favor by doing the transfer now. Now there is no reason for you to be held liable for anything that could arise with the horse.

    Personally, I wouldn't bother with giving USEF any additional paperwork at this point. If they were to default on the purchase, you have the needed paperwork at that time to transfer the ownership back to you. Why given them information that they do not need?



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2000
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,435

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    You could have yourselves both listed as owner until the horse is paid for.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2007
    Posts
    1,704

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle Mom View Post
    I contacted USEF anonymously and asked for the protocol for this particular issue. As I stated in my previous post, I haven't rescinded the transfer and have no intention to do so. I do want USEF to acknowledge that money is owed on the horse and that I have the right to have USEF records changed back in the event that the buyer doesn't pay off the horse within the terms of the contract.

    To answer your questions, I paid for the horse's lifetime recording when I purchased the horse. I purposely renewed my USEF membership fees so that they could show the horse if they wanted. We had already agreed that I would sign the entry blanks if they wanted to show the horse. Considering the classes they would be showing the horse in, it's not at all likely that she would be tested, and I don't have any reason to believe she wouldn't pass.

    I think the purchaser did this because the daughter didn't like the name of the horse, and I really don't care what they call her. Why should they care if USEF has record that they still owe money on the horse?

    If this causes a little inconvenience for the purchaser, so what? It's little price to pay for a six-month interest-free loan.
    Yeah right.
    There is no 'protocol' for this issue.
    USEF is not an ownership registry.

    Your comment about thinking it's not likely the horse would be tested makes me think you have little knowledge of USEF rated shows. Testing is random and is not based on the division the horse shows in. They are as likely to test a 2' pre childrens pony as a hgh performance hunter.

    And because you don't have control of the horse thinking there won't be a problem is a foolish position.
    The new owners ( who rightly are probably po'd at you) could simply load the horse up at every show with ace and wait for it to be tested and for you to have a problem with USEF. And they'd be off the hook LMAO.
    Alhough the USEF owner sanctions are not as substantial as the trainer sanctions it will cost you money.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2010
    Posts
    385

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    Quote Originally Posted by S A McKee View Post
    Yeah right.
    There is no 'protocol' for this issue.
    USEF is not an ownership registry.

    Your comment about thinking it's not likely the horse would be tested makes me think you have little knowledge of USEF rated shows. Testing is random and is not based on the division the horse shows in. They are as likely to test a 2' pre childrens pony as a hgh performance hunter.

    And because you don't have control of the horse thinking there won't be a problem is a foolish position.
    The new owners ( who rightly are probably po'd at you) could simply load the horse up at every show with ace and wait for it to be tested and for you to have a problem with USEF. And they'd be off the hook LMAO.
    Alhough the USEF owner sanctions are not as substantial as the trainer sanctions it will cost you money.
    According to USEF's Director of Horse Services, there is a protocol, but you're right, if the staff doesn't follow it then it's the same as not having one.

    The rest of your post is too ridiculous to merit a response.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,957

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    I kind of think you are making a tempest in a teapot. I am buying a horse that I did not quite have the cash for, and the owner was kind enough to let me pay off the balance. It was agreeable to us that I would pay a certain price down payment, then I would assume all risk and insure him. Her interest now is getting her money, and I appreciate her trust in me. When you agreed to let them make payments that was the time to decide if it was worth the risk, and now that you have decided that, just trust that you will get paid. You can't live your life assuming problems and jamming things up.
    friend of bar.ka



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2003
    Posts
    300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle Mom View Post
    According to USEF's Director of Horse Services, there is a protocol, but you're right, if the staff doesn't follow it then it's the same as not having one.

    The rest of your post is too ridiculous to merit a response.
    The USEF isn't an ownership registry, it's a show horse registry. I could log on right now and create registrations for a dozen horses that don't even exist. Or I could register a barnmate's unregistered horse in my name. Would that make it mine? No, but it would make me liable, as the "owner," if the horse showed under that registration number and tested for something, or bounced a check.

    And it doesn't even have to be nefarious drugging; maybe they put the horse on a SmartPak, where one of their senior supplements contains (illegal!) Devil's Claw. Whammo, positive drug test that the owner of record is responsible for.

    If you really want some kind of "credit" for the horse while they're showing it, which sounds like the case, why not ask the new owners to show the horse under a recorded lease until the balance is paid in full?



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2010
    Posts
    385

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    I kind of think you are making a tempest in a teapot. I am buying a horse that I did not quite have the cash for, and the owner was kind enough to let me pay off the balance. It was agreeable to us that I would pay a certain price down payment, then I would assume all risk and insure him. Her interest now is getting her money, and I appreciate her trust in me. When you agreed to let them make payments that was the time to decide if it was worth the risk, and now that you have decided that, just trust that you will get paid. You can't live your life assuming problems and jamming things up.
    I'm not assuming problems or jamming anything up. The buyer doesn't even know that I'm aware he transferred ownership. It's not about being kind enough to agree to take payments. It's a reality that to sell a horse in this economy you have to be willing to take payments. If you don't pay on time and the seller takes back the horse, how eager will you be to sign an affidavit for USEF to transfer ownership back to the seller? Why is it such a bad thing to tell USEF that money is owed on the horse?



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2010
    Posts
    385

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleTwistedWire View Post
    The USEF isn't an ownership registry, it's a show horse registry. I could log on right now and create registrations for a dozen horses that don't even exist. Or I could register a barnmate's unregistered horse in my name. Would that make it mine? No, but it would make me liable, as the "owner," if the horse showed under that registration number and tested for something, or bounced a check.

    And it doesn't even have to be nefarious drugging; maybe they put the horse on a SmartPak, where one of their senior supplements contains (illegal!) Devil's Claw. Whammo, positive drug test that the owner of record is responsible for.

    If you really want some kind of "credit" for the horse while they're showing it, which sounds like the case, why not ask the new owners to show the horse under a recorded lease until the balance is paid in full?
    I don't want credit for the horse. I only want to ensure I can easily transfer ownership back to me if the purchaser defaults. By providing a statement to USEF that the purchaser owes on the horse, I do just that. The purchaser stays listed as owner. He bears all liability and risks.



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