[findeight]

I don't think anyone badmouths it- its just a good similarity to hunters- a sport that evolved to represent a stylized way of going.

And they both evolved from the fact the owners have no access to open land, hounds and hunt clubs any more then they have access to vast tracts of open land to travel each day with cows to chase around.

But they have horses they would like to compete doing something.

[KateWooten]

I don't think anyone dislikes this showing class, or wants to bad mouth it, but, just like "The World Series", its name has become a farce which invites confusion and makes it appear a little arrogant. It has obviously evolved vastly from anything to do with hunting, and everyone seems to acknowledge that. Why not have it named so as to reflect its new values ?

[Dewey]

I thought the Hunter Derbies were supposed to provide a venue for a classically forward, field-hunter way of going over more difficult lines and natural obstacles. The Derbies are supposed to reward brilliance, right? No penalties for exuberance? Maybe a real field hunter could excel in this area--if he were fancy enough.

[Swale01]

They are stylized. Like western pleasure- who the hell wants to ride around their ranch on a horse that barely moves faster than a turtle.

HAHAHAHA I almost burned myself drinking my coffee when I read that...

[findeight]

...Why not have it named so as to reflect its new values ?

It's been called that for at least 60 years and nobody ever fooled themselves it had anything to do with ranch horses in at least 50 years or that the riders had any ranches to ride across or need for a horse for that.

Doubt they are going back to rewrite the entire rule section and asterisk all the awards over that time to reflect the change.

They did develp a "Ranch Horse" division I assume is still going that sort of does the same thing Field Hunter does for actual, working horses. Even most of the regular shows have a bunch of cattle classes for "real" horses. WP and Halter do not reflect the entire industry any more then random low level Hunter rounds do.

[Go Fish]

Our horse is not at all like some of you describe, my suggestion would be for you who think hunters are dull and on the forehand actually attend a double A show and try to learn something.

Or, actually ride one.

[Foxtrot's]

I'm from Britain and when I came here (long time ago) I didn't understand the difference between hunters and jumpers !! Had to have it explained to me. Then I took note, I learned from the likes of GM and his followers. I taught my own kids 'equitation' as opposed to the crotch-forward bum up position. They were successful. I believe in form and function and when comparing American style riders to British, I was completely sold on the American way.

These days, though, times have changed and I see fewer and fewer horses that would fit the desired horse that I have in my mind.

The best "Hunners" fetch a huge price and are - to me - the most elegant show horse out there. But they have life, presence and style.

A comparison of a Practical Horseman and Horse & Hound would show the difference.

Cannot leave out the Brits completely - they do have the derring-do that is missing in our show ranks.

[Beam Me Up]

I don't ride hunters but IMO all disciplines have been "stylized" when compared to their origins. Dressage and eventing both have military/cavalry origins, yet nobody worries that those horses aren't ready for war. Show horse disciplines are pretty much just about showing. It's fine not to enjoy or participate in the ones that don't appeal, though.

[altjaeger]

OP, what do you mean when you say they don't have hunter/jumpers across the pond? Do you mean they don't have separate hunters and jumpers? Just what DO they have?

[hntrjmprpro45]

A top show hunter is anything but dull and expressionless. They go around soft and forward, on a longer rein with a pleasant expression (ears forward, eyes alert). Most top hunters will give a little "peek" at the jumps, snap their knees up and over jump a bit. A dull horse would not put forth as much effort over fences. In fact, a typical dull horse (think old schoolie type), usually goes around flat and may even be a bit sulky.

And to reiterate... Slower/steadier rhythm does not mean behind the leg. A long stride does not equal "on the forhand". And quiet obedience does not mean dull.

[2ndyrgal]

Just the ones if you get to the show grounds early, you see over in the lunging ring with a groom on the end of the line.


For an hour.


Wouldn't it be FUN if the USHJA BANNED lunging at all of the shows?

And tested everybody?


Where's my ticket to the front row???

[AmmyByNature]

Just the ones if you get to the show grounds early, you see over in the lunging ring with a groom on the end of the line.


For an hour.


Wouldn't it be FUN if the USHJA BANNED lunging at all of the shows?

And tested everybody?


Where's my ticket to the front row???

What on earth is your problem?? Sure, there are bad apples in the hunter world. Just like there are bad apples in dressage, eventing, gaited horses, and western disciplines.

You know what would happen to the horses in my barn if longing was banned and they tested everyone? Absolutely noting. The horses would get a hack in the morning instead of 15 minutes on the line to stretch their legs after a day in a small stall. They can test our horses for anything they want since they aren't drugged.

Some of us buy and train horses that are appropriate for our discipline. If you have a quiet horse suited to the hunters, you don't need to drug it or long it.

Seriously, why must you jump to conclusions and paint everyone in the hunters with such a broad and unflattering brush?

Do you even DO the hunters, or are you just perpetuating stereotypes about which you know nothing?

[PoohLP]

I took a fox hunter on as a training project. She was a very talented mare with a lovely jump, but she launched at jumps like she was a rocket because she had never been trained to do anything but race along and jump after other horses. At least where I am, that is how the field hunters are trained. She put waaaay too much effort into jumping. I'd hoped to bring her along as a jumper, but couldn't keep her sound enough to be comfortable progressing her further. After eight months of intensive dressage and training her to rock back and jump from the base (lots of trotting everything from 2-3 foot verticals) she was sold to a 14 yo girl who is now winning hunter classes and derbies on her and the mare seems fairly happy and content in her new life of gallivanting around show rings. There is no way she could have done that before the retaining. So, yes, I think fox hunters can become successful show hunters, but there would probably often have to be quite a bit of retraining for their new life.

[gottagrey]

It's show Hunter, not FOXhunters or even Field Hunters. Fact we do not actually hunt much in this country due to no open, public or willingly offered private, suitable land. The Show Hunter developed for what we do have, a 100x250ft sand ring and mostly 3' on down fences because that is what most of the show riders want to do and available to them.
.

I don't know where you live Findeight but off the top of my head here are some very active hunts in MD and No. VA: Potomac, Howard County IronBridge, Greenspring, Marlboro, Newmarket-Middletown, Goshen, Piedmont, Loudoun, Middleburg, Fairfax, Snickersville, Orange Co Hunts just off the top of my head - all actively fox hunting several days a week during the season, and many offering hunter paces and hunter trials (open to nonmembers) as well as the odd steeplecase.

The 3 big indoor shows used to have a Hunt Night which was a blast and very festive. sadly those classes have fallen by the wayside which is an utter shame.

Me, if I could have a show and create a prizelist I would include a divisions for Field Hunters!

[GingerJumper]

What on earth is your problem?? Sure, there are bad apples in the hunter world. Just like there are bad apples in dressage, eventing, gaited horses, and western disciplines.

You know what would happen to the horses in my barn if longing was banned and they tested everyone? Absolutely noting. The horses would get a hack in the morning instead of 15 minutes on the line to stretch their legs after a day in a small stall. They can test our horses for anything they want since they aren't drugged.

Some of us buy and train horses that are appropriate for our discipline. If you have a quiet horse suited to the hunters, you don't need to drug it or long it.

Seriously, why must you jump to conclusions and paint everyone in the hunters with such a broad and unflattering brush?

Do you even DO the hunters, or are you just perpetuating stereotypes about which you know nothing?

I don't think there are enough emoticons that show agreement that I could possibly put under this post.

[SSacky]

I doubt it, at least not a working hunter.

Hunters in England are not supposed to pat the ground, they're jump is much more comparable to a jumper, you want scope not fancy. They are much more foreward, I doubt even a derby horse would keep up with the hounds. The frame is entirely different, when your galloping with a a big bunch of horses you sure as hell want some contact!

If we're being real, a show hunter with a good jump might be better

[Foxtrot's]

The shows themselves are different and some of the Brits should chime in here. Hunters are shown in weight-carrying divisions and a heavy weight hunter is the complete opposite to an American show hunter. He is a big fellow, capable of carryng weight. He must have looks, ooze quality and show no sign of coarseness. Tack is vastly different AND the judge rides the highest placed horses to sort out the winner. They need to look as if they could carry a rider all day in the field.

[Foxtrot's]

2ndYrGal - I so hear you.

There are some good barns - of course - and a top hunter is a rare and beautiful thing.

[Carol Ames]

I attribute this all to he demise of the Outside courses; they used to be the high;light... point of the division; hunting pace over natural fences/ terrain, usually with bonus points for brilliance; initially the classes were dropped because they took too long, gotta hustle those horses in and out of the ring so, judges and show committee can get home earlier; about the same time handy hunter classes stopped dropping the top rail and leading over a jump; also took "too long"then, with the loss of land fewer shows had room for an outside course; with the drug testing, trainers started worrying about footing; and it became easier to teach riders to count strides and "do the numbers" all of which made outside courses less attractive

[Selene]

I must admit I'm quite interested in this. I come from South Africa, where I think our concept of 'showing' is more akin to the UK. 'Showing' in SA is a term that covers everything that judges primarily the conformation of the horse, and one class is the working hunter.

The ideal working hunter is allowed to be a bit heavier, and he is FORWARD and bold. In fact after the course you're required to show a full gallop, and then a halt by the judge (which should show that your horse is steady in temperament). After that, the judge rides the horses to give a mark, and then the horses are unsaddled and are judged on their conformation and a brief trot in-hand. The jumps are also more rustic, and it's not unheard of to have a water jump, banks etc. Because it's a working class, he can have a few blemishes, and his movement doesn't need to be as fancy.

Here's an album of one of the shows: Working Hunter

I've watched a few hunter rounds here, and while the concept seems to have come from the same place, it seems as though very different qualities are emphasized. Are your hunters judged on conformation, or is it only on 'style'. And is it rider style as well as horse's?