[SportingSun]

I have a QH that has always been on the chubby side. This year he has really put on the pounds for a few different reasons.
1) I'm in college so I'm at the barn less/riding less
2) I'm in college so other people (mainly my mother) have been feeding the horses, and are of the opinion that more is better.

I have to admit I wasn't keeping an eye on Mr. Chubby's weight as much as I should have been, but the vet pointed it out to me during spring shots and I realized I have to do something before he becomes completely obese!
I'm terrible with BCS scoring, (and I forgot to ask the vet exactly what she thought he was) but I'm scoring him a 6.
There is a slight crease over his butt and he has a "spongy" tail head. I don't notice any significant fat deposits on his neck, definitely not cresty at all, and I can't tell if he has fat pockets behind his withers or not. He is a QH with a nicely muscled up topline/mutton withers. I can feel his ribs, but not without pushing hard. I haven't taped him or anything like that.
Since figuring out that he has become such a fatty, his diet has become 1/4 lb alfalfa pellets and 1/4 cup of whole flax in the morning, with 12+ hours of turnout in a grass arena (at this point it is eaten down to almost nothing) along with 5-6 lb of 2nd cutting orchard grass hay. For dinner he gets 1/4 lb alfalfa pellets, 1/4 lb of Triple Crown Senior (otherwise he won't eat his supplements), and his supplements which include joint and Smartvite EZ Keeper Grass. He has 2 flakes of hay in a slow feed hay net, a flake of orchard grass and a flake of a 1st cutting grass mix (med. quality). It is probably around 8 lb total.
I've increased my riding time but I think I'm having saddle fit issues (I'm seeing some white hairs developing on his right side behind his withers, although not where I think there would be much pressure from the saddle), so I'm going to try to get a saddle fitter out. We're trail riding, mostly at the walk 2-3 times a week, going out for close to an hour each time. Sometimes I'll fit in a 20-30 minute ring work (dressage) session as well.
Does all this sound ok? Should I be doing more to help him shed some lbs? I think he has lost some weight, his girth has gotten looser in the past few weeks.
Sorry for the novel!

[D Taylor]

6 is not fat BS. 6 is moderately fleshy and I like to have horses at roughly 6 or slightly higher going into winter. Sure for the riding season a bit slimmer is good.

Roughly off your description I score your horse at least a 7.3. So yeah sounds like a few lbs lighter is smart.

His diet sounds OK provided he really is not getting to more grass than you realize. I generally feed hay at 1/2 (or about 8.5 lbs per hd per day)the rate to my easy keepers when starting them on limited grass.

But if I were you I would run some #'s on EAA's and EFA's. You may find something as increasing his flax or adding very modest amounts of another oil grain or oil ingredient will bring everything in line without over doing calories.

[SportingSun]

But if I were you I would run some #'s on EAA's and EFA's. You may find something as increasing his flax or adding very modest amounts of another oil grain or oil ingredient will bring everything in line without over doing calories.

What are EAA's and EFA's? Sorry, I really don't know much about nutrition.

He definitely isn't getting much grass. The arena he is in is probably 200x100 and is grazed down bare in some spots. It is basically just enough to keep him busy. He is in there with his pasture mate also, who likes to keep him moving.

A 7 eh? You're probably right, I just get confused because I don't see any fat deposits on his neck and the crease on his butt is "almost" non-existant. I'd rather think he is higher than lower though to motivate myself not to cave and let him have more food than he should.

I can drop down his hay some outside, or switch to my lower quality stuff and use slow feed hay nets out there. The problem with the hay nets is finding spots to attach them, most of the fenceline is electric rope.

My vet said that I didn't have to go to any drastic measures to get weight off him, that he wasn't that bad, but gaining any more weight was a definite no-no, and suggested a grazing muzzle if I wanted to put him on any "real" grass. It should be fun to try to keep a grazing muzzle on mr. Houdini, who has escaped blankets, flymasks, and halters.

[quarterhorse4me]

Like you I have a very thick quarter horse gelding. His body style is so different than my taller quarter horse mare (you would think she is the appendix as opposed to him) that it is really hard to guage his BCS score. As I indicated in an earlier post I have taken measures to address his weight but I do think we have to factor in body style. He will never look like my mare unless I starve him.

My mother always way over feeds. I will tell her a half a scoop and she will give two. My husband is no better with the treats. I caught him feeding them this afternoon. To make matters worse, I have 3 horses, a hard keeper, and easier keeper and one that is juuuuust right. Try managing all that.

[JB]

6 on a 1-9 scale is overweight. It's not all that dangerous in most cases, but it's still overweight.

I wouldn't be tearing my hair out over it, but I WOULD like to see a horse come back to a 5 and would not AT ALL want to see a pound more put on.

If you can't feel ribs without pushing hard, that's at least a 6, and most definitely is too heavy.

1/4lb of alfalfa? how about a cup Or, try a ration balancer, TC30, 1/2lb morning, 1/2lb evening, and aside from his joint supplement, that's IT as far as non-forage calories. No a-pellets, no nothing else.

Muzzle while on grass.

Easy keepers are so much harder to manage

[D Taylor]

What are EAA's and EFA's? Sorry, I really don't know much about nutrition.

He definitely isn't getting much grass. The arena he is in is probably 200x100 and is grazed down bare in some spots. It is basically just enough to keep him busy. He is in there with his pasture mate also, who likes to keep him moving.

A 7 eh? You're probably right, I just get confused because I don't see any fat deposits on his neck and the crease on his butt is "almost" non-existant. I'd rather think he is higher than lower though to motivate myself not to cave and let him have more food than he should.

I can drop down his hay some outside, or switch to my lower quality stuff and use slow feed hay nets out there. The problem with the hay nets is finding spots to attach them, most of the fenceline is electric rope.

My vet said that I didn't have to go to any drastic measures to get weight off him, that he wasn't that bad, but gaining any more weight was a definite no-no, and suggested a grazing muzzle if I wanted to put him on any "real" grass. It should be fun to try to keep a grazing muzzle on mr. Houdini, who has escaped blankets, flymasks, and halters.

The big problem with easy keepers is they still need quality nutrition less all those calories.

EAA = essential amino acids
EFA= essential fatty acids

Since he is on a grass specific vit/mineral balance you have those covered.

The BS system uses 6 factors and not just ribs..and for good reason. Horses carry fat differently. Your horse could easily be higher or lower. I just ran the #'s real quick off your description.

I think it is best to lose weight slowly. Horse will be happier that way. And from what your vet is saying it sounds like you do not have a really fat horse....just one that needs to shed some pounds (kinda like me). So maybe best to give what you are doing a little time and a bit more scrutiny too be sure he is getting everything he needs without too many calories.

I do not use ration balancers on my horses. Too many calories....I can formulate a fortified feed and balance the ration as needs be with fewer calories than RB.

Grazing muzzles- Several of my friends do love them. I do not let my horses on pasture unless they are eating...they clown around too much out there and tear it up. So I limit grazing time and everyone comes into dirt lots cuz they do not need any more pounds either

[JB]

Yes, the Henneke scoring system uses many parts and not just the ribs, but if one has to press hard to find ribs, the horse is too fat.

A ration balancer would be fewer calories, I think, than what the horse is getting now, with more nutrition. Ok, no, going back to look, it seems there's a total of 1/2lb a-pellets and 1/4lb TC Sr, so a bit less than 1000 calories there. That's a couple hundred less than a RB.

Honestly, the place I'd start would be the RB, reduce the amount of hay during the day, and let him pick at the grass. I didn't see at first it's nibble grass, nothing major, so a muzzle wouldn't be necessary. My WB was in his best best weight ever when he was on really poor pasture that was just nibbles. He was constantly eating SOMEthing, but simply didn't get to consume a great deal.

The alternative would be a homemade "ration balancer" - 2c or so of beet pulp, soaked, then the v/m supplement, and add Tri-Amino for the lysine/methionine/threonine. That's what my 2 boys get because they can't take the RB calories.

[D Taylor]

Like you I have a very thick quarter horse gelding. His body style is so different than my taller quarter horse mare (you would think she is the appendix as opposed to him) that it is really hard to guage his BCS score. As I indicated in an earlier post I have taken measures to address his weight but I do think we have to factor in body style. He will never look like my mare unless I starve him.

My mother always way over feeds. I will tell her a half a scoop and she will give two. My husband is no better with the treats. I caught him feeding them this afternoon. To make matters worse, I have 3 horses, a hard keeper, and easier keeper and one that is juuuuust right. Try managing all that.

Oh your last 2 sentences made me want to giggle. I see potential for a bedtime story book!

[asterix]

Lots of good advice here about intake, but I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the other end of the equation -- more exercise!
2-3 hours of walking a week is not exactly a lot of work. Can you find someone else who'd like to trail ride? If he could get worked 4-5 days a week, and make those hacks a little bit more intense, it would help a lot.
No one would expect an overweight person to lose significant weight just by dieting -- same for horses!

[yellowbritches]

I'm really good at getting fatties to lose weight (why they all think I'm mean and evil ), and most of the things that have worked for me are mentioned here.

I agree with asterix. The thing that is missing the most is exercise. If you can figure out how to get him out and SWEATING a couple more times a week, he should trim up well on his current diet.

[JB]

Well, she did say "I've increased my riding time but I think I'm having saddle fit issues "

That said, yes, more exercise to burn more calories

[mswillie]

Tossing this out there keeping in mind my sample size is one, my QH type grade gelding is the quintessential easy keeper.

He was down to a handful of grain, half a day turn-out with a grazing muzzle, and about 10-15 lbs. of decent quality grass hay in a nibble net when he was in the stall. He's worked at least an hour generally 5 days/week w/t/c.

After looking into EPSM I changed his diet to one based on more fat. He now consumes significantly more calories (~3lbs high fat performance pellets and about 10 oz of oil/day). He still wears the grazing muzzle during turn-out and gets the same hay ration. Paradoxically, he has lost well over 100lbs, his muscling has visibly improved, and he's more fit and forward than he has ever been.

Just might be something to consider.

[BeanCounterPony]

Can you switch to a different, more tasty joint supplement that he will eat ouf of hand and eliminate the TC Senior?

Mine loves liquid corta-flex so I do not have to use any grain at all to get her to lick up her pelleted vitamin supplement. Im sure there is sugar in corta-flex but its only an ounce and it completely coats her vitamin and bitter MSM and then some.

Also, eliminate the alfalfa pellets asap. Use your lesser quality hay. Add the muzzle. I know you said there isnt much grass out there in that ring he is in but there might be more than you think. If there really isnt much, forget the muzzle and just reduce the morning hay. He will still get nibbles (like some above mentioned)

Maybe add some protein supplement? Its hard because he still needs good nutrition w/o calories.

More sweat time. Can someone else ride him since you have limited time?

Have a heart to heart with your mother. Show her research, make a case. Good luck! That might be your biggest challenge

[sassy45]

I have a easy keeper he gets no grain just hay plus i work him 6 days a week and make him sweat. I ride him 3 hours a day trotting and cantering when we get home hes huffing and puffing and sweaty.

Just had vet out for spring check ups and had teeth floated vet is always telling me my horse is way to fat. This time he said he needs some weight said his body score is a 3 1/2. So iam feeding him beetpulp and TC senior but afaid he will get to fat with the feed hes on. Vet recomened i feed 4 pound of TC and 2 pounds of beetplup seems like alot for a easy keeper. I honestly didnt see how thin he was i look at him every day. I knew weight had come off because i had to put my cinch up two holes.

Will be getting pictures every month to see if there are big changes my poor boy didnt really want him skinny just leaner.Hes loving the grain thing though he even nickered this morning.

[BeanCounterPony]

4 lb of TC senior and 2 lbs of BP does seem like a lot but then, Im not a vet.

[sassy45]

4 lb of TC senior and 2 lbs of BP does seem like a lot but then, Im not a vet.

That 4lbs Of TC senoir and 2 pounds of beetpulp is twice a day thats 12 lbs total. He also has free choice hay 24/7.

[SportingSun]

The QH was reduced from 1 lb of TC 30% to what he is on now. I used FeedXL to figure out calories, and it was less calories to do it this way. So no to the RB.

I'm thinking about reducing him to 1 cup of TC Senior with his supplements. I give Flex Force and Corta-Flx (both liquid) currently, along with a multi-vitamin. Maybe he will eat just that? I'll give it a try tonight. He is such a brat with food though, I'm tempted to just not give him anything, but due to the lower quality hay he at least needs a multi-vitamin.

I'm out of school for the summer in about a week, so there really isn't any point of trying to find someone else to ride him. I'm not sure I'd want to risk the liability either. He likes to buck on trail rides (at the canter) and right now the only suitable place to ride is on trails.

Hopefully I'll have a fitter out in the next few weeks to check my saddle, I've been riding bareback mostly which is fine for him (no soreness) not so good for me when going up steep hills. If anyone has a saddle fitter rec. please let me know! I'm in SE PA, Schwenksville to be exact.

I definitely won't be able to keep a muzzle on him, he is Mr. Houdini. The grass he is on is really minimal. The arena is small, we haven't had any rain, he is out there 12 + hours with another horse. There are bare spots in some areas, grass is maybe 1/2 inch high. Just enough to nibble.

[D Taylor]

I'm out of school for the summer in about a week, so there really isn't any point of trying to find someone else to ride him. I'm not sure I'd want to risk the liability either. He likes to buck on trail rides (at the canter) and right now the only suitable place to ride is on trails.

You're out in a week? Lucky you. I have 2 more wks of class and then finals week.

Well get that saddle checked out and happy trails.