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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
    Location
    North County, San Diego
    Posts
    597

    Default

    This use fee of mine that keeps getting quoted applies to horse show photos used at the widest scope of stallion advertising.

    Photos that I take at a Stallion Advertising Photo Session have the rights for that specific use (stallion or farm promotion) bundled into the session price: Once the session fee is paid, there are no additional use fees in order to use any or all of the photos taken during the session to promote your stallion.

    Terri Miller



  2. #202
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2003
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Bravo Terri and Susan!!!!

    The rest of you photogs sit up and take notice.



  3. #203
    Join Date
    Sep. 22, 2002
    Posts
    125

    Default

    I'll second the bravo too!

    Terri, how about when someone pays a shooting fee at a show. Do you treat that differently than when you are just shooting different horses with the hope of selling them (I don't mean that disrespectfully, I know that you sell a lot because of your quality.)



  4. #204
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
    Location
    North County, San Diego
    Posts
    597

    Default

    My sign up fee, which is a flat fee for proof sheets of all images taken of the client at the show, goes toward the cost of producing the proofs. I rarely send out proofs on speculation anymore.

    I think you are asking if I "bundle" any rights into the sign up fee...? No, I don't.



    Terri Miller



  5. #205
    Join Date
    Sep. 22, 2002
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Yes, I was asking about more leeway.

    Your risk reduces drastically if you have a shooting fee vs. taking someone's pic who may or may not want to buy. So it would make sense to give that client a "better deal" than the potential one who doesn't pay you upfront or maybe never pay you.



  6. #206
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2002
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
    Posts
    19

    Default

    I'm not sure what photographers you are working with that are not bundling usage rights with farm shoot packages. When I started to get into the equine photo business, I researched a number of photographers and came to see that as the norm. My farm shoot package includes rights to a certain number of photos of the clients choice to promote their stallion services. I also have a smaller package for those that are simply trying to sell a horse or two - with rights included. Proofs are always included with my farm shots, and the only extra costs that may pop up is extra rolls of film or extra time on the job.

    To susan b, I understand that many people may not want me to use pictures of their property or horses for advertising, editorial or other means. That is why I tried to clearly state that I would do so only with permission from the owner.

    As for the question of fees at a show, my show fee (which is quite minimal) is merely a reservation fee. Often times I am shooting up to six different rings at once, and I cannot guarantee that I will get spec shots of everyone. Therefore, for a minimal fee, my assistant will radio me and make sure that I get shots of that particular rider. I do not include any rights with show photos.

    Jeremy Handel
    Handel Photography



  7. #207
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2002
    Posts
    153

    Default

    I think if you just go through this thread, you will see several photographers stating they would not sell rights - as in never! even from a farm shoot. I think the reputable photographers know what the market is and price accordingly. It is a few of the others - prophoto, etc who have an extreme outlook on things.



  8. #208
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2003
    Posts
    53

    Default

    I'm going through hell with a photographer right now! Completely out of left field. The photographer's policies don't fit into any regular business standards of any photographer I've run into in years! I counseled the client and she vows never to deal with this photographer again - farm call situation, but in the meantime with stallion season upon us, the photographer has my client by the balls (if she had any) and is milking it for everything she can get. I won't name her here but, mark my word, this photographer will NEVER get another piece of business from any of the farms in the area.



  9. #209
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 2002
    Posts
    28

    Default

    I wish someone would name these photographers. I understand that no one wants to make an enemy but if this is their business policy it seems reasonable that we can discuss it openly. It would be helpful to be able to verify and understand these business practices.



  10. #210
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2001
    Posts
    5,653

    Default

    http://www.saddlehorsereport.com/gen/012103photo.asp

    not that any of the H/J pros have this week off, but here's an equine photographers shindig




  11. #211
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2001
    Posts
    5,653

    Default

    http://www.equinephotographers.net/
    http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/lol.gif

    [This message was edited by coldritzy on Jan. 21, 2003 at 05:01 PM.]



  12. #212
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,830

    Default

    I often wonder if any of these professional photographers that have such heavy fee schedules ever calculated whether they would have more income if they just had a higher price and sold the rights to the horse owner. They could require their name to be on the photo but I really have a hunch they would actually be making more dough!
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  13. #213
    Join Date
    Sep. 22, 2002
    Posts
    125

    Default

    With all due respect, proofs do nothing for anyone if you can't show them to anyone!!!! Otherwise, they sit in a box under the bed and you only take them out in a fit of nostalgia.

    Again, if you pay someone an hourly fee, to me that is work for hire and the client should get every single one the photos for whatever they want, period.

    I still have a problem with the rights being granted/paid for graphic design, promotion, web design and then the photographer wanting to "approve" the work with the possibility of charging more money. If you sell a photo for "design" work - web or ad - then EXPECT the photo to be put into the design!!!! duh! To then get "sticky" on the deal is bad, bad, bad photographer.



  14. #214
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2002
    Posts
    153

    Default

    I agree on a few accounts. A pic is great to have but not being able to do anything with it makes it less so.

    Also, I think more people would buy if it was more affordable. Coming back from Florida, I can't tell you how many times I asked someone if they got a picture and they said that they wish they did but it was too expensive.

    As far as future value of a horse pic vs. a wedding photo - think about this - a good wedding photo may be bought by 50 - 100 or more friends and family, even if the bride weighs 200lbs (shame on you for whoever made that snide comment) while I don't think but one or two people would be interested in buying a pic of a 10 year old hanging on to a hunter pony around a course of fences. And if that pony was to be sold down the road, I seriously doubt there would be more than 5 or 6 people who would really look at the photo as serious buyers.

    And, the future value of a stallion photo - well I would think most farm shoots would be of young horses & mares for sale and most of these have about as much chance of being a superstar (olympic level) as my 10 year old has of getting signed by the NBA down the road, yet the pro photographer taking the team photos sells an entire package with nothing about the rights.



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