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  1. #1
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    Jul. 14, 2001
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    Clarence Center, NY, USA
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    I am interested in starting a discussion on the popularity (now and in the near future) of colored sporthorses and warmblood crosses, specifically, pinto, palomino and buckskin. I have seen some results from a Devon breeding show where quite of few of the placements seem to have gone to 'horses of color'. For those of you who just came from Devon, what is your take? And all else being equal (conformation, movement, temperment) would you rather have an unusual colored dressage or event or h/j horse???



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2001
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    Clarence Center, NY, USA
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    I am interested in starting a discussion on the popularity (now and in the near future) of colored sporthorses and warmblood crosses, specifically, pinto, palomino and buckskin. I have seen some results from a Devon breeding show where quite of few of the placements seem to have gone to 'horses of color'. For those of you who just came from Devon, what is your take? And all else being equal (conformation, movement, temperment) would you rather have an unusual colored dressage or event or h/j horse???



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 1999
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,621

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    Well, you've come to one of the right places to ask that question, Nadine (and welcome to the boards!) Liz Hall (Pintofoal) posts here, and she is one of the founders of a new colored horse registry, as well as being the owner of some of the best "stallions of color" around, starting with Art Deco. Then there's JB, who as a big Art Deco fan has learned a lot about color genetics. There are several other colored sport horse breeders and fans here as well, so hopefully some of them will see your post and reply. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2001
    Posts
    58

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    Here is a picture of my Dutch Warmblood Pinto Sirocco. She is by Domino. She is quite loud in color and has a ton of personality



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2000
    Location
    The Southern California freeway system, stuck in an endless commute
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    5,902

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    Like Spot said, I think it honestly depends on the individual. I love wildly colored horses; I know several trainers and judges out here, though, that would not even consider them for the hunter ring and certainly won't pin them. (Eventually, though, if enough of them win "Back East," they'll get more accepted here. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

    But the key is, ALL things being equal. We bred to Liz Hall's stallions five times and got one -- yes, one -- pinto. (And that's not meant as a dig against Liz or her stallions, it was just our bad rolls of the genetic dice.) Still, the color would have just been icing on the cake. Four of the five went premium at their inspections (the fifth just missed; he'd been a preemie and the inspectors considered him not developed enough) and all have made lovely, lovely competition horses.

    In the final analysis, I'll take the well-built, good-moving, athletic, KIND soul in the plain wrapper over anything less in colored clothes.

    A funny aside about that one pinto: She sure stood out among all our bays and chestnuts. It didn't help that she was clearly the alpha mare on our small ranch. It reached the point where she had to go to shows by herself because all her barn buddies would catch sight of her and start screaming. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Even now, after she's gone on to her new life as a broodmare, if the other "kids" catch sight of a pinto (even a pony) at a show, they start screaming until they realize it's not her. I have to say, that has made me think twice about buying another wildly colored one.

    But I do "fantasize" about a nice Appy (one with a full tail!) or a palomino. It must be the California cowgirl in me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    ****Bulletin Board Goddess****
    Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2000
    Location
    Northern VA, USA - where farm land is being lost to McMansions
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    1,668

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    <<<And all else being equal [conformation, movement, temperment) would you rather have an unusual colored dressage or event or h/j horse???>>> Well I think for me that goes without saying, but of course unusual color would be on the top of my list if all things are equal.

    I truly believe that the "trend" of colored horses is more then just that...if colored breeders be it pinto, app, palomino, etc. breed horses of quality and with the color they will always be in demand. Most competitors own 1-3 horses and it is really fun to have something that stands out not just because of its quality but also a flash/splash of color to catch the eye. People are unique with different styles and tastes and color horses help to fill void for folks who like a bit more then a solid bay or chestnut. I agree with most everyone--people either like the color or they don't a few may jump on the band wagon to be trendy or "cash" in, but those that do that tend to not stick with it and sometimes lose quality to the quest of color.

    I am very proud and excited to be part of a new color registry IRC International Reg. of Colored Horses that Portia mentions above (thanks Portia for the VERY nice comments about my boys both here and on another post) and think that with the promotion, ratings, and future programs that IRC will offer will only help better the colored horses and help gain even more popularity and less prejudices (though those are few and farer between these days)

    As far as I can tell the future of colored horses is a bright one and not just because of purple shampoo ;o)

    Liz Hall
    http://www.silverwoodfarm.com
    http://www.coloredhorses.com
    null
    Liz Hall silverwoodfarm.com Warmblood Pintos



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    311

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    I have no problem with breeding colored sport horses. In fact, I have a buckskin TB mare that is in foal, and I'm very curious to see if she passes her dilute gene to the baby. However, I did not breed her because she's a rare color. I bred her for her superb temperament and because she has proven herself as an advanced eventer and grand prix jumper.

    In my experience, many of the pinto, palomino, cremello, etc. horses that are being bred are of inferior quality (Liz Hall's horses are excluded from this statement. Spectrum is gorgeous!). In the Chronicle stallion issue, I spotted (ha!) several stallions that really look like they should be gelded. It bothers me when a horse who, had they been bay, would not even be considered as a stallion prospect but, as a colored horse, they are promptly put at stud as 2 year olds! They're not even finished growing and have not proven themselves in any performance arena; why are they being offered to the public to make more of them?!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 1999
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ ... HOT, HOT, HOT..
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    I guess I am one of those 'traditional' breeders. My stallion, Alla'Czar, really has as much color as I like, high whites and some roaning. He does throw belly spots ocassionally,which are interesting and fine. So, going along with the 'all things being equal' which I totally endorse, I had the opportunity to lease an Art Deco/TB mare last year and decided to go wild!!
    The resulting filly is absolutely stunning, she is comformationally correct, has a beautiful head and neck, has a pedigree to die for and moves just as well. She is 3/4 white with bay spots and a bay head. Quite LOUD.
    Now, I have had several inquiries from potential buyers for yearling fillies for HB (Devon) for next year and nobody is particurally interested in this filly. That makes me belive that the color gap is still quite substantial. I am refering potential buyers to my breeders for fillies.
    I am attaching a pic of my LOUD filly who I have named A Cover Girl.

    Camille Greer
    Darkhorse Farm



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 1999
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ ... HOT, HOT, HOT..
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    273

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    here is the pic? hopefully..



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
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    3,508

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    Camille,
    she is lovely. I love her long neck and refined head. I think that the right person will come along and have to have her. Maybe not for hunter breeding, but you never know. Liz sells hers practially unborn, so why should you have a problem selling such a fancy filly. Czar is a good sire, and she is nice.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2000
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    9,032

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    Sirocco, what a gorgeous horse! She looks like she'll be a great hunter. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Who took that awesome picture?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
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    Oregon
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    Spot: thanks for the offer, but I'm never letting this horse out of my sight! She really is too good to let go. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2001
    Location
    Temple, PA
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    770

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    I totally agree, a stallion should not be a stallion for color only. If they don't have the conformation, movement, size, and temperment geld them. There are too many nice stallions out there who have the complete package.

    Nadine:
    The colored horses are here to stay. As an active competitor and breeder of Hunter Breeding horses, we see lots of colored horses on the line. The pinto warmbloods are doing pretty well even the loud ones. The ones we have seen on the line for the most part are correct good moving horses. A good horse is a good horse no matter what color. However, on the colored TB end of it they are having a harder time pulling good ribbons. I think many of the judges feel that a TB should be dark bay, brown, chestnut, or gray only. I have seen several instances in this Zone where they have been discriminated against. They tend to be more open in VA. Many of our handlers won't show a colored TB for some reason. I stick with my good horse theory. The same discrimination can happen in performance hunters too. But color is here to stay!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2000
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    617

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    Be it EVER so humble...
    There's NO place like CHROME!!!!

    From Miss Tabby Cat, PHSA Champion 1997 Thre year old Non TB and Reserve Champion Pa Bred. 2nd---Devon PA Bred 3rd--Devon Non tb. A VERY loud Tobiano QH and the highlight of my life!

    You go Darkhorse, that filly is darling!!!!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2001
    Location
    Clarence Center, NY, USA
    Posts
    32

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    Thanks for all the input everyone!! It's really great to 'meet' so many that also like color added to a horse with great conformation, movement and sweet temperment. It just gets so darned Boring!! when all you see is bay or chestnut horses with the occasional grey thrown in. Myself, I like the WB style dressage type horse but with COLOR!! I used to own a gorgeous PINTO that was so eye-catching, wherever he went he had a crowd of admirers. And from the time I was a child and watched Roy Rogers and Trigger, I always wanted a palomino. So I had to breed myself a palomino dressage horse. The comments on my colored foals have been positive and next month I am planning on taking my colt and filly to our local dressage breeding show. We shall see what happens. Here is a pic of my 7 week old filly, Artistic Gold, out of a solid bay ART DECO mare.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2001
    Location
    Clarence Center, NY, USA
    Posts
    32

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    Really love seeing the photos of your colored horses. The pinto filly is just adorable, don't worry, she will sell quickly, just need the right buyer, they will snap her up - I would buy her myself, except I am supposed to be selling, not buying. <smile> The gelding by Domino looks gorgeous, would love to see a movement or conformation shot of him, what a hunk!! I have been to the website for the colored TB stallions before, they are amazing!! Where exactly in Ontario are you??? I am near Buffalo, NY and may want to breed one of my mares next year to something "bold". This year I bred my solid bay Art Deco mare (the dam to the palomino filly above) to Spectrum, hoping for some kind of 'spots'!! Liz, my mare is getting checked Friday for pregnancy, have got my fingers crossed, personally, I think she caught, we'll see. I love Spectrum's forwardness, his quiet temperment, and what looks like a great work ethic, should be a great foal, only problem is, I will want to keep that one, too!!!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
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    1,914

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    Nadine, who is the sire of your palomino filly? Was he a cremello or palomino? She looks just lovely.

    I'm trying to create a palomino WB/TB cross (hampered by breeding issues, see my previous rant about stallion owners not returning phone calls. Now Madam Mare decided to just forgo coming into heat at all last week.) Granted, it's a bit of a lark. Not sure what to expect out of my mare, since she's never had a foal before. She's cute, sound, and jumps well, so if she has a palomino version of herself, we should be okay. (Please don't flame me for not breeding with higher expectations.) I'm hoping Mr. Stallion will add a little more substance, and perhaps an inch or two more height. Mare is 15.3, sire is 16.2.

    Like you, Nadine, I thought palominos were just the most beautiful color when I was very young. Never gave it another thought over the years, and then, BANG, I think I'll make a palomino! I don't know what hit me!

    Ms. Mare #2 is a gray, so my efforts at color breeding with her are limited to "please do NOT make another gray"! She is covered with melanomas, and I would prefer not to perpetuate that. The gray nag gets bred for her substance and gorgeous gaits, but I won't even consider any gray stallions for her.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2001
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    2,225

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    As a buyer rather than a breeder, I have to say that personality is my #1 requirement, but I do also have to admit to a secret hankering for a blue roan TB or WB :-) Also, since my trainer does both H/J and Western, a paint would come in handy, and I have seen some absolutely gorgeous ones recently :-) Hubby is getting more than a little worried about my horse plans for the future, LOL.

    Spot, I love the sound of that horse you used to have - do you have a photo by any chance that we could see? His coloring sounds wonderful!

    Camille, your filly is beautiful - I hope I get chance to see her in person at the RPSI Inspection [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2000
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    Northern VA, USA - where farm land is being lost to McMansions
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    Sorry to hear that you have not resolved your breeding dilemmas! Hopefully you will, but in meantime check out this boy (small attachment below) He is owned by a wonderful lady who should be great to do business with. He is currently in Germany completing his 100DT and will be in USA by next breeding season. I think he is really cool and though I'm into the spots more than the other colors I may breed something to him next year. This year I did go to two out side stallions -- almost 3 but the frozen semen bills are killing me so didn't do the third, which is a Wap stallion here in the US. I bred my black Hol x TB mare to Apollon a Knapstrupper standing in Germany and my Fine Art Pinto Oldenburg mare to Rhodes Scholars a young up and coming Rohdiamant son also in Germany, hoping for color in both breedings, but even if not should be great crosses.

    Liz Hall
    http://www.coloredhorses.com
    http://www.silverwoodfarm.com
    Liz Hall silverwoodfarm.com Warmblood Pintos



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2000
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    Northern VA, USA - where farm land is being lost to McMansions
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    that all the foals/horses posted look GREAT and Darkhorse--your filly is lovely, believe me she will sell!

    Liz Hall
    Silverwood Farm
    http://www.silverwoodfarm.com Standing at stud: Art Deco, Hall of Fame, State of the Art and Spectrum

    http://www.coloredhorses.com
    Liz Hall silverwoodfarm.com Warmblood Pintos



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