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  1. #1
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    Nov. 28, 2004
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    Default Bitting up from a double-jointed D ring snaffle?

    Hi,

    What would be a slight "bit up" from a double-jointed JP hunter Dee ring snaffle?

    I only need a very slight bit up, definitely nothing drastic. He only "does" double-jointed bits. This is only for short term.

    The horse has pretty been much out of work for almost 2 years and is now back in work, fit and happy. Did I mentioned fit?

    TIA..



  2. #2
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    Oct. 17, 2009
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    Unionville
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    Default

    Without a picture of the one that you are referring to, I would just mention that a bit with thinner bars (as opposed to fat ones) is a little stronger.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals" Immanuel Kant



  3. #3
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    Nov. 16, 2000
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    Default

    A running martingale? That will only come into play when he gets a little strong, and doesn't change the bit at all.

    Or a tighter noseband/add a flash so he can't open his mouth and evade.



  4. #4
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    Oct. 13, 2006
    Location
    New England
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    Default

    I'm popping in from hunter-land... I was going to suggest a slow twist, but if horsie only "does" double jointed bits, perhaps a pelham or elevator with 2 reins? That way you can get some curb/poll action when needed, but you can mostly ride off the snaffle rein.
    friend of bar.ka



  5. #5
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    Mar. 16, 2009
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    NH
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    Default

    Running martingale, or figure 8, or an elevator (you could just do the two ring) with two reins, or even a double jointed pelham (they are out there). Our guy, who really only need a tiny bit more bit was recently moved to an elevator for outside and it made a world of difference.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
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    5,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loves to ride View Post
    Hi,

    What would be a slight "bit up" from a double-jointed JP hunter Dee ring snaffle?

    I only need a very slight bit up, definitely nothing drastic. He only "does" double-jointed bits. This is only for short term.

    The horse has pretty been much out of work for almost 2 years and is now back in work, fit and happy. Did I mentioned fit?

    TIA..

    Can he "do" a waterford? I might try that, long before I'd try an elevator or a pelham (or a slow twist). Or a myler loose ring might also be an option if you have one handy.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2000
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    Pawlet, VT US
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    Default

    Does he only do double jointed , or does he not do single jointed? If the second, a slight step up would be a short shanked pelham. But please get a mullen mouth, not a jointed one! Broken curbs should be outlawed.
    madeline
    * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2011
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    Maryland
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Does he only do double jointed , or does he not do single jointed? If the second, a slight step up would be a short shanked pelham. But please get a mullen mouth, not a jointed one! Broken curbs should be outlawed.
    how come?
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
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    Tucson
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    Default

    Is this because he's too strong (which I'm guessing due to the emphasis on fit) or because he's leaning?

    Loose rings with the same mouthpiece help eliminate leaning without getting any stronger, since you emphasise just a small amount needed. If you need just slightly more bit due to too much forward, there are a bunch of good suggestions above.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  10. #10
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    Nov. 16, 2000
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    Concord, NH
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wcporter View Post
    how come?
    Yes, why are jointed pelhams bad? I always thought the joint actually lessened the power of the curb chain because when it flexes it loosens the chain. It will affect the mouth inside the same way a single joint snaffle will but that's just snaffle action.

    A mullen mouth gives a more severe curb action.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
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    3,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilary View Post
    Yes, why are jointed pelhams bad?
    A pelham is a leverage bit.

    One way to think of it is that a lever is a bar resting on a certain point, and the fulcrum makes the lever work. When you break up the lever (ie., with a joint), you no longer have a functional fulcrum.



  12. #12
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    Sep. 21, 2000
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    Pawlet, VT US
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come Shine View Post
    A pelham is a leverage bit.

    One way to think of it is that a lever is a bar resting on a certain point, and the fulcrum makes the lever work. When you break up the lever (ie., with a joint), you no longer have a functional fulcrum.
    Exactly. The joint makes the action of both the curb chain and the leverage on the poll totally unpredictable. That's not fair to the horse. The best gift , bitting wise, that we can give our horses is consistency. Jointed curbs remove that option.
    madeline
    * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis



  13. #13
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    Apr. 29, 2011
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    Maryland
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    Default

    Interesting...
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse



  14. #14
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    Apr. 2, 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
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    Default

    I love my elevator. I've jumped both my horses in it because they would get too strong on the boucher and myler D they flat in. I can pick a ring -- my semi-retired guy started on ring 3, but was up to ring 2 by Novice and ring 1 for Training. Baby OTTB has a mouth like a brick, so he met ring 3 and we have found it very agreeable for us both. He is nowhere NEAR as sensitive to it as my older, softer mouth guy was. I could be so light on it with horse 1, but for baby, not so lucky yet, but he'll get there. At least now I can set him on his butt without standing in the irons and hauling, ugh!



  15. #15
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    Nov. 28, 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
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    Default

    Thanks everyone for the responses!

    He's got a pretty soft mouth actually. Just sometimes when we're having a wonderful trot or canter along the trails, he just sometimes "forgets" that I am there.

    He doesn't freight-train, or anything like that.

    I just want to turn his "hearing aid" up 1 notch on the dial.

    netg: I have a loose-ring of almost the same mouthpiece that I could try.

    I have a Pessoa as well that I had tried long ago but he would back off it too much so I had introduced a different problem.

    Thanks so much everyone for the suggestions!!!

    Off to experiment...



  16. #16
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    Feb. 26, 2007
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    Bronx, NY/Atlanta, GA/Fort Dodge, IA
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    Default

    I have done each the following in various situations:

    1) Slow twist Dr Bristol dee ring (on a horse that otherwise went in an oval mouth JP dee)

    2) Add a running martingale

    3) Add a figure eight (this particular horse otherwise goes in a Sprenger Duo with a regular noseband)

    4) Same mouthpiece, different cheek

    And, on one particular horse:

    5) Remove figure eight (apparently the figure eight pissed her off; removed it, and she immediately went better)

    As an aside, I'm in agreement with those who are anti-jointed Pelham.
    Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous
    Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.



  17. #17
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    Sep. 21, 2000
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loves to ride View Post

    I just want to turn his "hearing aid" up 1 notch on the dial.

    ..
    Are you sure you don't want to turn it up about six notches, make your point, then turn it back down? Ofte turning up one notch at a time creates a certain lack of respect.

    (This comes from a field hunting perspective, where horses earn their way into being snaffle mouth hunters by demonstrating that they behave in their pelhams.)
    madeline
    * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis



  18. #18
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    Apr. 2, 2009
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    North Carolina
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    Default

    I kind of agree with Madeline, in a way. That's why I start on the bottom ring of my elevator and they "earn" their way up the rings. Not saying you have to go crazy and crank on him, but an initial "OH! Yes, ma'am!!" often works very well to get your point across and then allow them to develop consistency as they work back down to less bit.



  19. #19
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    Nov. 28, 2004
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    Madeline and wildlifer..
    Good thoughts on the "make your point" and then leave him alone.

    I'm at the stage of my life where I really just want to be a passenger on a horse who really wants me to work.



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