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  1. #1
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Default Horse slaughter plant headed to Middle TN?

    http://www.wmctv.com/story/17327194/...d-to-middle-tn

    A bill is expected to come up for a vote in the House Monday that its sponsor says is designed to make horse meat processing plant operators feel welcome in Tennessee.

    Rep. Andy Holt, a Republican from Dresden, says the bill would create jobs and a place for unwanted horses to die a humane death.

    "We're trying to encourage job creation and economic development in the state of Tennessee," Holt says.

    Holt says rural middle Tennessee is a likely location, although he won't say where or who's behind the effort.

    "I don't think it's anyone's authority to make me divulge who these people are. This has been a controversial issue," Holt says.






    http://www.theleafchronicle.com/usat...CFRONTPAGE%7Cs

    " A Tennessee attorney general's opinion says a legislative proposal to require large deposits before people could mount a legal challenge to a horse slaughterhouse is constitutionally suspect.

    The bill sponsored by Rep. Andy Holt would require a bond equal to 20 percent of the worth of a horse slaughterhouse or processing plant from anyone filing a lawsuit against the facility.

    The Dresden Republican's bill seeks to encourage the practice of slaughtering horses in Tennessee."



  2. #2
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    May. 12, 2000
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    NE TN, USA
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    Default

    What are you worried about? The RARAs have enough $$$ at their command that the amount required for a challenge is just chump change.
    The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
    Winston Churchill



  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank B View Post
    What are you worried about? The RARAs have enough $$$ at their command that the amount required for a challenge is just chump change.
    Who is worried? I am watching to see which of these plants, that have been in the news lately, will actually get up and running.

    I didn't think 20% of the cost would faze them either.



  4. #4
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    Nov. 8, 2007
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    Default

    There's a lot of opposition to these bills here in TN, and not initiated by big organizations. Pretty much of a grass roots effort among horse people, crossing party lines. We hope our reasoned arguments resonate with our state representatives. RARA $$'s in TN are not going to cut it.



  5. #5
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    Default

    There is a poll here and opinion is closer than I thought it would be.

    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...slaughterhous/

    Poll: Should the state legislature pass a bill to "encourage" the location of horse slaughterhouses and processing plants in Tennessee?

    RESPONSE PERCENT VOTES
    No 54% 6459
    Yes 45% 5407
    Not sure 0% 13
    total votes: 11879



  6. #6
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Default

    Be careful what you wish for Tennessee'ens.
    Look at Kaufmanzoning to get an idea of the effects on the community having a plant like this can bring- stress to infrastructure [roads, sewers, etc] with no/low taxes paid and profit walked off and not spent locally, and lowered property values with little gain [ie 50 low paying, gruesome jobs].

    I may be personally anti-slaughter for the humane aspects, but I am anti-plant for what it does to the community and what it promises but doesn't deliver.



  7. #7
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    Nov. 8, 2007
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    All these issues have been communicated to the appropriate people. Hope our lobbying pays off.

    But, if not, as Angela states, you get what you ask for, and sometimes more. I don't live in middle Tennessee, so, other than the humane issue, have little skin in the game.

    There's a Tyson chicken plant in that part of the state where they brought in a pile of Somalis (political refugees) to work there (nobody else would) and now the town has been taken over by them, with resulting cultural clashes.



  8. #8
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Default

    Bewared the NIMBY phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by lifesabreeze View Post
    There is a poll here and opinion is closer than I thought it would be.

    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...slaughterhous/

    Poll: Should the state legislature pass a bill to "encourage" the location of horse slaughterhouses and processing plants in Tennessee?

    RESPONSE PERCENT VOTES
    No 54% 6459
    Yes 45% 5407
    Not sure 0% 13
    total votes: 11879
    For all those who voted NO, I assume the voted YES to horses being shipped to Canada and Mexico.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Be careful what you wish for Tennessee'ens.
    Look at Kaufmanzoning to get an idea of the effects on the community having a plant like this can bring- stress to infrastructure [roads, sewers, etc] with no/low taxes paid and profit walked off and not spent locally, and lowered property values with little gain [ie 50 low paying, gruesome jobs].

    I may be personally anti-slaughter for the humane aspects, but I am anti-plant for what it does to the community and what it promises but doesn't deliver.
    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    All these issues have been communicated to the appropriate people. Hope our lobbying pays off.

    But, if not, as Angela states, you get what you ask for, and sometimes more. I don't live in middle Tennessee, so, other than the humane issue, have little skin in the game.

    There's a Tyson chicken plant in that part of the state where they brought in a pile of Somalis (political refugees) to work there (nobody else would) and now the town has been taken over by them, with resulting cultural clashes.
    Did you just call this group a "pile" of Somali people and political refugees?

    Moving on. This does commonly happen with meat processing plants. It's sad. I'd do almost anything before taking a job in one. But it's not a horse slaughter plant per se that produces these problems. If you will have horses suffering because of the NIMBY phenomenon anyway, and any plant will produce low-paying jobs and all that goes with it, why not build it? It's not like Middle TN is going to become the next Silicon Valley just because a horse slaughter plant is kept out.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  9. #9
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lifesabreeze View Post
    There is a poll here and opinion is closer than I thought it would be.

    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...slaughterhous/

    Poll: Should the state legislature pass a bill to "encourage" the location of horse slaughterhouses and processing plants in Tennessee?

    RESPONSE PERCENT VOTES
    No 54% 6459
    Yes 45% 5407
    Not sure 0% 13
    total votes: 11879
    And of course the rep in the article states the plants will help deal with old horses...I guess he doesn't realize that it is YOUNG horses that make up the majority of those slaughtered. In 2007 the avg age was 12. I'm sure it is younger now, due to the economy and cheap prices of horses.
    Eagerly awaiting Jan 20th, 2017. Drain the swamp.



  10. #10
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    Nov. 8, 2007
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    Default

    I bring up the jobs issue because that's one of the arguments they are using.

    In reality, this is being backed by a cadre of legislators and outside investors who breed quarter horses and gaited horses out the kazoo, and want a ready market for their culls.

    All this horse slaughter activitiy is to pave the way for breeding for slaughter, like cows, for the european market. As if we don't eat enough meat as it is. Meat is not an efficient way to feed people, and will become less efficient as farm land declines and population increases. Then, I guess, we'll eat each other.

    Yes, I did say "pile". That's an expression. It means "a lot".



  11. #11
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    Mar. 18, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Be careful what you wish for Tennessee'ens.
    Look at Kaufmanzoning to get an idea of the effects on the community having a plant like this can bring- stress to infrastructure [roads, sewers, etc] with no/low taxes paid and profit walked off and not spent locally, and lowered property values with little gain [ie 50 low paying, gruesome jobs].

    I may be personally anti-slaughter for the humane aspects, but I am anti-plant for what it does to the community and what it promises but doesn't deliver.
    Are not 50 low paying jobs better than 0 jobs?

    Any plant, whether it be a meat processing, lumber, or automotive is going to stress the infrastructure currently in place. Many plants are owned off-shore so the profits go off-shore. Many communities reduce or eliminate the taxes in order to get the plants to locate there and supply jobs. If the plant does not pay what is owed it is up to the community to take the company to court and collect.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
    Any plant, whether it be a meat processing, lumber, or automotive is going to stress the infrastructure currently in place. Many plants are owned off-shore so the profits go off-shore. Many communities reduce or eliminate the taxes in order to get the plants to locate there and supply jobs. If the plant does not pay what is owed it is up to the community to take the company to court and collect.
    Yes, but a community poor enough to welcome an employer that provides low-paying jobs and doesn't want to pay for the infrastructure it will use is also too poor to sue. Everyone knows that going in.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  13. #13
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    Aug. 5, 2009
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    Default

    I believe the town of Kaufman was extremely financially stressed by trying to enforce broken codes by Dallas Crowne. I believe Crown tried to separate every single infraction into a separate court case, costing the town an horrendous amount of money that they really didn't have to begin with.



  14. #14
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    Nov. 26, 2001
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    Nashville, TN USA
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    Default

    There are jobs in the middle TN area-------folks just won't take them-------------------many would rather sit on their asses and bitch and moan than to have more than nothing if they can't have alot-------------------did that make sense to you??????????? Do you think they are going to line up for jobs at a slaughter plant????????? And why can we not have a controlled humane euthanasia program and disposal at a nominal cost/or government run and free instead of a slaughter plant where the methods are not humane????????????????????? And I am not a RARA------I'm just an equine person that is pissed off.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nashfad View Post
    There are jobs in the middle TN area-------folks just won't take them-------------------many would rather sit on their asses and bitch and moan than to have more than nothing if they can't have alot-------------------did that make sense to you??????????? Do you think they are going to line up for jobs at a slaughter plant????????? And why can we not have a controlled humane euthanasia program and disposal at a nominal cost/or government run and free instead of a slaughter plant where the methods are not humane????????????????????? And I am not a RARA------I'm just an equine person that is pissed off.
    Sorry to get all political on you, but it sounds like those guys prefer welfare to a bad job. And you don't appreciate the sentiment.

    But! You want the government to subsidize cull disposal for the horsey set?

    As a ranty Marxist, I say "For shame!"

    And as a regular person: "Dude! Are you nuts? That's politically untenable."
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  16. #16
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    Nov. 26, 2001
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    Nashville, TN USA
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    Yes, I know, we'll give food stamps and all kinds of "benefits" to lazy asses that refuse to work and feed all the children belonging to these folks because they don't use birth control and they get more $$ the more kids they have and the rest of us work our asses off to have and keep what we have. Take that money from the deadbeats and put it towards something else. The state of TN 'bragged" a while back about the # of folks on welfare at an all time high---sic---------3/4 of my horses work more than some folks!



  17. #17
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Sorry to get all political on you, but it sounds like those guys prefer welfare to a bad job. And you don't appreciate the sentiment.

    But! You want the government to subsidize cull disposal for the horsey set?

    As a ranty Marxist, I say "For shame!"

    And as a regular person: "Dude! Are you nuts? That's politically untenable."
    You do realize that they have estimated the costs for horse meat inspection to be 5 million per yr. And then you have the costs associated with upgrading wastewater plants/infrastructure, and the cost for the cities to prosecute EPA violations. It almost bankrupted the city of Kaufman.
    It would actually be cheaper to just have gelding clinics, and euth clinics.
    Eagerly awaiting Jan 20th, 2017. Drain the swamp.



  18. #18
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    You do realize that they have estimated the costs for horse meat inspection to be 5 million per yr. And then you have the costs associated with upgrading wastewater plants/infrastructure, and the cost for the cities to prosecute EPA violations. It almost bankrupted the city of Kaufman.
    It would actually be cheaper to just have gelding clinics, and euth clinics.

    A) 5 million is nothing on the federal level
    B) you are leaving out the cost of disposal for your euthing clinic, 1200 points of bio hazard material
    C) the slaughter plant is likely not the only reason Kauffman went bankrupt, or that the sewer system was obsolete.
    Newsflash, the utilities in most US cities are hopelessly out of date and in need of restructure and upgrade.
    You will see the construction coming to a city near you probably really soon, as the infrastructure is rapidly collapsing.
    D) the plant is a private business, for profit. Not a feelgood happy place. Euthing clinics I am sure are fine, but come on. it's not even apples and oranges...that's like lemon and Catbury cream eggs....
    Quote Originally Posted by BigMama1 View Post
    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
    GNU Terry Prachett



  19. #19
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    A) 5 million is nothing on the federal level
    It's this thinking that has led to the incredible billions in deficit that we have now. Our gov't is insolvent or very close to it and printing more and more money for all this crap is not going to help..it just digs a deeper hole.

    I'm not for spending a dime on a foreign owned business like this one almost certainly is. I'd rather see that 5 million channeled into building and inspecting more local multi species plants that would take horses also. Win win for everyone that way and builds our own home grown businesses and keeps the money in the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    , the utilities in most US cities are hopelessly out of date and in need of restructure and upgrade.
    You will see the construction coming to a city near you probably really soon, as the infrastructure is rapidly collapsing.
    That assumes there is money to repair our crumbling infrastructure. We are dangerously close to a major depression. I'd not bet on the odds of there being money to fix many of the things that need it for much longer if we stay on this path.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
    Are not 50 low paying jobs better than 0 jobs?

    Any plant, whether it be a meat processing, lumber, or automotive is going to stress the infrastructure currently in place. Many plants are owned off-shore so the profits go off-shore. Many communities reduce or eliminate the taxes in order to get the plants to locate there and supply jobs. If the plant does not pay what is owed it is up to the community to take the company to court and collect.

    IMHO, no.

    It's Middle TN, so if you bring in a company that hires 50 nuclear engineers you bring in 50 families who spend money with a 10% sales tax, have nice houses on which they pay property tax and don't need much in the way of social services.

    Bring in 50 low income families and they tend to cost the community more in education (bi lingual education) and social services than they put in
    I wasn't always a Smurf
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    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



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