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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2010
    Location
    North AL
    Posts
    832

    Default Proud Cut Gelding ?

    What exactly is proud cut? How can you tell if your horse is proud cut, is it something they do on purpose or something that happens accidentally if the vet doesn't do something right? And what characteristics does your gelding show if he is proud cut?

    I think my guy might be, he is obsessive about mares, not uncontrollable, but a real PITA.

    Any thoughts or ideas?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2011
    Posts
    2,966

    Default

    While I've seen several different definitions, the gist of it is that a gelding is "proud cut" if only one of his testicles has been removed, due to the fact that the other one is retained, as in never dropped down. Sometimes it can also be due to some of the testicular tissue being left behind in an otherwise normal-seeming castration. Characteristics nothwithstanding, first tests are done via bloodwork to test testerone levels, which can pretty fairly show if there might still be something "in there". Then you go from there.

    I own a gelding who had a retained testicle (was EXTREMELY stallion-like), & I ended up having it surgically removed by an equine hospital. Made him a much happier camper in the long run.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    12,670

    Default

    Proud cut is, for the most part, folklore.

    It's usually pretty obvious when performing gelding surgery whether or not you got the testicle.

    If you're concerned that your horse may have significant testosterone production, have the levels measured. (hCG stim test is the most common method)

    Elevated levels in a "gelding" usually indicate either a cryptorchid, or a horse with abnormally high androgen production in some other tissue, most commonly the adrenals.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2010
    Location
    North AL
    Posts
    832

    Default

    Thank you for answer, I am reading more about it right now. I don't think my guy really fits the characteristics of that I see described, he's just an obsessive ass around mares. He doesn't try to mount them and isn't trying to lead the herd over the other gelding. We are having difficulty arranging the boys and the girls as one of the mares is a real B*TCH to the other mare. So she has to go in with the boys. My guy is in lust and it's annoying.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,781

    Default

    Remember that "stallion behavior" is primarily instinctual. The hormones provide the "fuel" for the behavior, but the behavior itself comes from evolution.

    Indeed, check the hormone levels to select in or out that as a source of the problem. If they are normal for a gelding then you've got a training problem. If they are not then you have a different kind of problem. Address it as the test results suggest.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Definitely check his hormone levels.
    I had one that got very excited about mares in the next field.
    My local vet poo pooed the idea that he wasn't gelded properly. And was amazed when his results came back very high.
    He was operated on at Virginia Tech at Morven and they found the second testicle.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2011
    Posts
    2,966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutt View Post
    Definitely check his hormone levels.
    I had one that got very excited about mares in the next field.
    My local vet poo pooed the idea that he wasn't gelded properly. And was amazed when his results came back very high.
    He was operated on at Virginia Tech at Morven and they found the second testicle.
    Same place I had my guy done. Very thorough & friendly, although their friendliness dropped a little bit when I showed them a copy of their "confirmed" highest estimate, which was somewhere between $300 & $500 lower than the total bill. When I asked them - since I was there throughout the surgery - what "extras" cost the additional monies (extra equipment, longer time to do the procedure, etc., etc.) they couldn't come up with an answer (especially since they knew I'd viewed the procedure & thus knew the exact amount of time it took & that there weren't any problems - surgeon even held up the offending testicle & asked me if I wanted to take it home for a paperweight - lol!)

    While I had to pay the total bill originally to release my horse from hospital bondage & take him home, they did end up refunding me the extra monies charged. One does have to wonder though, how many folks get taken this way without realizing it.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2011
    Location
    East Longmeadow, MA
    Posts
    3,375

    Default

    My guy is very much like the OPs except he DID mount mares. I had the testing done, no retained testicle, he was just gelded late (3.5 y/o) and is studdish. No screaming/calling (thank you, God) and is just very, very, very interested in mares. Also quite full of himself. But not in a bad way.

    Someone let him out in the mares pasture a few months ago and BOY, did he have a good time!!!
    What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,190

    Default

    In what I have seen and experienced the gelding in question will have all the mannerisms of a stallion. He will mount, breed ( as in penetrate), scream, holler to mares etc.. I guess just like some stallions are quite calm, some boys who have this problem will be calm as well. They will leave no doubt in your mind if you are in the right situation.

    As for what actually causes this we were always told it was a gelding procedure done wrong. From the answers here I guess that always isn't the case.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverreed View Post
    My guy is very much like the OPs except he DID mount mares. I had the testing done, no retained testicle, he was just gelded late (3.5 y/o) and is studdish. No screaming/calling (thank you, God) and is just very, very, very interested in mares. Also quite full of himself. But not in a bad way.

    Someone let him out in the mares pasture a few months ago and BOY, did he have a good time!!!
    That's mine - gelded at 4, doesn't just mount, breeds them. Sigh, he doesn't get turned out with any mares (or next to them, either, because he will destroy the fence, even electric). Hormone levels are ok, he just has some really ingrained behaviors. He's OTTB, btw, and pretty well bred, so I guess they were wanting to see if he had any speed to him (he didn't) before they gelded him. But he doesn't ACT studly unless he's out with them - I can ride him with mares, lead him around them, etc. He will roll his eyes at them and act interested, but doesn't misbehave.



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