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  1. #1
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    Default TV show "Luck" has had THREE horse deaths?

    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  2. #2
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    We all know that horses could impale themselves on bubble wrap, much less injure themselves when moving. At some point, though, don't you have to call it quits?


    Just walking and reared, went over, had to be euthanized... we all know that sort of thing can happen. But when it's the third death, whether they're doing something wrong or not, it starts to make me feel ill, personally.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    We all know that horses could impale themselves on bubble wrap, much less injure themselves when moving. At some point, though, don't you have to call it quits?

    Wow, a while back, there was a thread discussing the fact TWO horses were injured and had to be euthed due to accidents related specifically to the filming of this show. As a matter of fact, I believe a statement was made indicating the show would carefully monitor the horses, provide vet care, etc. One should look up the threads for the exact information.

    I'm sorry, but no TV show should be okay with 3 deaths in such a short time of filming. If they can't get it right, for heaven's sake: STOP.

    WTF is wrong with people?

    Stomping off to cancel HBO.
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  4. #4
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    I'm with netg mostly. There was a thread about an article that described the first two deaths. The AHA didn't have much problem with those as it was already overseeing the filming and simply pulled the "no animals were harmed..." message, but approved the measures they took to ensure humane treatment. PETA raises a fuss about anything--I'm really far towards the animal rights spectrum on this board (vegetarian for ethical reasons unless the animal was hunted or raised by someone I know and trust, don't buy new leather goods, etc.) and even I don't trust them for anything.

    The fact is, they're filming horse racing. Someone brought up in the last thread that they're probably not using top racehorses--those make plenty of money and have strict training schedules, they're not going to take time off or interfere with training to film a show where it's likely to take multiple takes to ensure the right horse with the right silks is in the right place. I mean, I've been a riding extra in a few films, all westerns, and it usually takes multiple tries to get the right shot even when everyone but maybe 2-3 leads at the most are just random cowboys. It isn't abusive (all the sets I've been on were overseen by AHA) but I wouldn't use one of my best horses for it, because they're trained for other uses.

    So based on my (admittedly limited) experience, I suspect that they're using less-than-stellar horses. Since they're filming racehorses, the animals are running full out. Pay attention to the differences in the gallop between the average modern western (the remake of 3:10 to Yuma, for example, or The Missing, or Into the West) and, say, Seabiscuit or the race scenes in Secretariat. Horses in modern westerns tend to run in more of a hand-gallop or only have extremely short shots, while the racing films often seem to have longer shots and more of a dead run.

    I do have some problems with the number of deaths. It would make me really uncomfortable if I subscribed to HBO/watched the show in the first place. I have problems any time an animal is injured or killed purely for entertainment. I just don't think that the producers/actors/wranglers are necessarily to blame. 3 deaths isn't a huge number when you consider the number of injuries and deaths at horse shows or other generally acceptable (save by AR nuts) activities. I do think an examination of the film-making process here is good, but I also just think sometimes you have a run of inevitable bad luck.

    So I guess it is a show I would be uncomfortable watching at this point (in a hypothetical world where I have HBO and watch the show already) and probably would not rent it or anything until it is further investigated. But I'm also not ready to assume that they're using bad practices or otherwise harming animals intentionally. Sometimes things just go wrong.



  5. #5
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    Again, like I said on the discussion for #2:

    They should NOT have named the show "Luck".... that's right up there with saying "Unsinkable", "Impossible", and "Inconcievable"
    Nudging "Almost Heaven" a little closer still...
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  6. #6
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    Several more suitable show names come to mind -- 'Titanic', 'Solyndra', 'Edsel'...
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosMonster View Post
    I do have some problems with the number of deaths. It would make me really uncomfortable if I subscribed to HBO/watched the show in the first place. I have problems any time an animal is injured or killed purely for entertainment. I just don't think that the producers/actors/wranglers are necessarily to blame. 3 deaths isn't a huge number when you consider the number of injuries and deaths at horse shows or other generally acceptable (save by AR nuts) activities. I do think an examination of the film-making process here is good, but I also just think sometimes you have a run of inevitable bad luck.
    Particular emphasis on my agreement with the bolded. I think at the first death you have to question if it's worth it. Given the nature of what they're shooting and that they want to do multiple takes, etc., I would start questioning at the first death not involving wrongdoing if perhaps just the nature of trying to film the series might be wrong. I haven't seen it myself to see how many racing scenes there are or anything, but at some point I would begin questioning if the nature of the pursuit is worth the animal deaths, especially if it's found that the handlers are doing their best to try to keep horses safe.

    Again, I know horses impale themselves on bubble wrap - so it's not possible to truly keep them safe. But the question becomes, is the nature of shooting this inherently dangerous, and if so is it worth the risks to equine lives? (I think I missed previous threads discussing the subject, or at least I'm not remembering right now.)
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  8. #8
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    Well said, netg. That was exactly what I was trying to say, just not so eloquently.

    I only saw one other thread on the topic and as I recall it only went for a page or so, so pretty easy to miss.



  9. #9
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    How did the other 2 horses die?



  10. #10
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    Breakdowns while running, IIRC. They were on limited work (as in, not running all day, not like a lay up) so it's not like they were run all day or anything. IIRC the AHA had approved their schedules.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    How did the other 2 horses die?
    Injured filming racing scenes. (Which, as anyone who even bothered to watch the extras on "Seabiscuit" or "Secretariat" knows, let alone read the threads from a COTHer who was an extra in the latter film, isn't at all like running a race full out. You can't film that way.)

    This one flipped over being lead and hit its head. Typical horse thing. It happens. If you use horses, some are going to find a way to kill themselves. This just happens to be something the entertainment media feels like covering.



  12. #12
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    How many horses are killed every day in the United States at race tracks? Is it time to ban horse racing?

    Not saying that nothing has been done wrong or cannot be done better with the filming of the show, but a horse going over is an unfortunate accident that happens all the time at barns everywhere.



  13. #13
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    They probably have a big barn full of horses that look pretty but that's about their worth. You have enough horses, shit happens.


    but it does seem like the show is snake bit on the horse end of things.


    Then again, we know that you can go years without any incident at your barn, all over sudden the flood gates are open and it seems that even the stuffed ponies pop abscesses and splints.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Injured filming racing scenes. (Which, as anyone who even bothered to watch the extras on "Seabiscuit" or "Secretariat" knows, let alone read the threads from a COTHer who was an extra in the latter film, isn't at all like running a race full out. You can't film that way.)

    This one flipped over being lead and hit its head. Typical horse thing. It happens. If you use horses, some are going to find a way to kill themselves. This just happens to be something the entertainment media feels like covering.
    In my mind, an injury is different from a breakdown.

    Did they report what KIND of injury?



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    In my mind, an injury is different from a breakdown.

    Did they report what KIND of injury?
    I don't know. I don't really care enough to check. Snapped a leg or fell and broke a shoulder, who knows. Just something bad enough it had to be put down. In this case, horse reared, it flipped, it hit its head hard enough to be put down. Happens. People just get upset because it's TV, or maybe because it's related to racing and the "seedier" (read blue-collar) aspects of it, so they like to hold their nose and point fingers.



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post


    Then again, we know that you can go years without any incident at your barn, all over sudden the flood gates are open and it seems that even the stuffed ponies pop abscesses and splints.
    That is like the best line ever... lol



  17. #17
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    I heard on the news this morning that Luck HAS decided to stop using horses as a result of the third death. Don't know how long it will last or what their plans are for the show. The news just said they were stopping filming with horses.



  18. #18
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    they probably have a million hours of footage of the horses by now. A bit creative editing, maybe some computer tricks, and you'll never know the horses were the same ones from the 1st episode...


    I mean, they finished movies in 94 with the lead actor dead...I am sure they can be creative enough these days....



  19. #19
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    I just wonder though, with all the movies and tv shows with horses in them (where horses don't die), why is this production having such back luck (no pun intended)... whats going on here? Maybe they need some oversight from additional horse people, looking into their practices. Sometimes an objective, different set of eyes can see solutions or potential issues. I dunno.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCT View Post
    I just wonder though, with all the movies and tv shows with horses in them (where horses don't die), why is this production having such back luck (no pun intended)... whats going on here? Maybe they need some oversight from additional horse people, looking into their practices. Sometimes an objective, different set of eyes can see solutions or potential issues. I dunno.
    Hey,

    I was interning at a horse publication during the first two deaths and read a lot of the press releases being sent out for the show. I just want to clarify that EVERY precaution was being taken to prevent another accident. Any horse considered for the show was being radiographed for goodness sake! The pages of requirements for approval of horse scenes and the horse to be used was RIDICULOUS. I actually wondered why they didn't just scrap it b/c of the requirements alone-they can't have been conducive to filming.

    I don't watch the show nor do I subscribe to HBO, but according to all the information I read (including the links to AHA website press releases listing the specific safety requirements, precautions, etc. etc. just to shoot a single scene, they were doing everything and anything to keep horses from getting injured. I remember thinking at one point, for goodness' sake, *I* don't do half-or even a quarter-of this stuff before taking on a cross country course!

    Seems like an unfortunate run of, erm, luck, for the show but not a result of any sort of negligence on the part of the production/crew/cast.

    Just my 2cents.
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