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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
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    Howell, Michigan
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    477

    Default Don Frederic

    Did anyone get to see Don Frederic (Don Frederico / Wolkentanz) at the 2012 Schockemohle stallion show? I really like what I see in the video. Supple, elastic. Note: I think they picked a jumper rider to show him off.

    http://www.schockemoehle.com/en/serv...ash=qytsjmhvhp

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjLP-28CbYs

    I keep trying to tell myself...Only a 3 year old stallion....must wait to see what he produces. But I really like him :-).

    Dan



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    464

    Default

    Nothing to add, other than Fannie Mae likes him too:

    http://www.hippologi.com/donfredericengl.htm

    I love his elasticity.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    3,811

    Default

    I can tell you maybe more as I know the damline a bit.

    He has a fullbrother licensed in Westfalen a few years ago as a premium stallion that was than in Nijhof's hands.

    He comes from the same damline as Lancet and Argentan.

    He is bred:
    Don Frederico - Wolkentanz - Liberty M - Wenzel - Absatz - Valentino xx.
    I know already the Wenzel. She herself was not too huge, but a very tough cookie. A lot of foals like 15 or so. Her MPT was outstanding with 9's and 10's as far as I know. Her Liberty M daughter was a very tall chestnut and had two Wolkentanz daughters and a Royal Diamond for her german breeders before she was sold with the RD filly first to Canada than to the US. I know who had her first, but than lost track of her. I hope she is in the hand of breeders who know what they have there ! same for her RD daughter.
    The Wolkentanz daughters that stayed in Germany both have outstanding movement just like their mom. One got States Premium, both had a very very good MPT.
    Daughters out of those two Wolkentanz mares received SPS and won their classes at the mare shows (I am not sure but maybe one won the huge show locally a few years ago - would need to look that up).

    What I can say for sure big movement is secured in that direct family ! I have seen them a lot of times as the breeder used to be one of my best friends and I was at their farm very very often, so have seen them all until a few years ago. I have not seen him as a foal thoug I think.

    If I would dig into information I could even tell you more about show results under saddle, but that would need more time.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2015: Likoto- Florencio - Prince Thatch; Lissaro - Don Frederico - Prince Thatch; Edward - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,215

    Default

    Wow, talk about a breathtaking mover! Everything just seems to work "right". Very impressive , talented young stallion.


    Brief look in my catalogue and yes, the conclusion makes perfect sense since here comes a son of Don Frederico. An anecdote says it all:
    There used to be a professional barn up north in Germany and the sing on the door said:
    “Monthly fee mounting and training 600 Euros.
    For progeny by Sandro Hit an Don Frederico costs double.”


    LOL. As someone who has had (and loved!) two Don Fredericos I can laugh in agreement here. They certainly make their opinions known.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
    Posts
    477

    Default

    houserabbitz,

    Thanks for the link to Fannie Mae's report on him. Loved reading it.

    I agree that if Don Frederic didn't have such a wonderful dam line, I wouldn't be interested right now.

    Alexandra,

    I would love to hear any more information you find about him.

    Thanks,
    Dan
    Last edited by Dan; Mar. 14, 2012 at 06:55 AM.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2008
    Posts
    1,660

    Default

    Well he is quite something, in himself and in his pedigree! Not available in NA though, is he???



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2004
    Location
    Fleetwood, PA
    Posts
    2,606

    Default

    As others have said, his damline is really strong. I own a mare from this damline (Bellatesse HTF) and have researched it quite a bit.

    http://www.horsetelex.de/family.php?horseid=248367


    And it seems that all branches of the Valentino xx x Absatz daughters from this damline ended up becoming excellent producers, with lots of approved stallions and competitive S level horses. And the originator Landschaft dam was the dam of Worms (who produced Argentan I and II).

    And I can also agree that the movement is engrained in this damline and carries through very strongly.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
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    Default

    I have added quite a few horses just from my head in the close relation of Don Frederic.



    And I also know a guy that breeds with this mare out of the same line:

    http://www.horsetelex.de/edit.php?ho...horseid=248367
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2015: Likoto- Florencio - Prince Thatch; Lissaro - Don Frederico - Prince Thatch; Edward - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2003
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
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    477

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydays View Post
    Well he is quite something, in himself and in his pedigree! Not available in NA though, is he???
    I'm thinking about him for a mare we have in Germany right now.


    Just found someone who sells his frozen. You would just need to get someone like Judy Yancey to import.
    http://www.elitestallions.co.uk/inde...d=7&no_cache=1

    Dan
    Last edited by Dan; Mar. 14, 2012 at 06:41 PM.



  10. #10
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    Sep. 17, 2003
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    Howell, Michigan
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    379

    Default

    I also love this Damline. A former AHS Horse of the Year Loreen D descends foem the same line. I have a mare sharing agreement on a Wolkestein II - Lemon Park - Wenzel. One of her babies is currently in Stephen Paters barn. Very ridable and trainable.
    Cindy Bergmann
    Canterbury Court
    559-903-4814
    www.canterbury-court.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2006
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    1,161

    Default

    I saw him last month there too and he definitely struck my liking almost the most of all stallions.

    Only thing, anyone knows why he was turned down at the Hanoverian preselection? will he be going for his under saddle approval?
    if he gets approved for hanover, I have a mare in mind for him in Germany.
    Linda Woltz
    www.walnut-farm.com
    standing Benidetto (Belissimo M/SPS COrdoba)



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2005
    Posts
    1,916

    Default

    Deleted. Wrong stallion.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
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    Default

    Linda he was definetely not at any Hanoverian preselection ! I know because a friend was at the complete tour. My guess: because Verden prefers that each stallion presented at the big licensing is sold there, they wanted to avoid the hassle. As far as I know PS bought him as foal.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2015: Likoto- Florencio - Prince Thatch; Lissaro - Don Frederico - Prince Thatch; Edward - Sandro Hit - Rouletto



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2008
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    1,660

    Default

    Does anyone want to venture "what type of mare" would suit him? He seems pretty perfect to me - maybe a little more substantial than some of the current favorite young ones. Seems to me to have "Hanover" written all over him. Maybe avoid very old fashioned mares? How about a mare with TB in the damline?



  16. #16
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    Sep. 17, 2003
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydays View Post
    Does anyone want to venture "what type of mare" would suit him? He seems pretty perfect to me - maybe a little more substantial than some of the current favorite young ones. Seems to me to have "Hanover" written all over him. Maybe avoid very old fashioned mares? How about a mare with TB in the damline?
    Sunnydays

    Dr Christmann is usually always pushing for more refinement. One of the surprises at the Hanoverian breeders course is that Dr. Christmann said that the Hanoverians now have enough refinement. It is not good to have too much thoroughbred blood. It can cause problems with straightness of the legs.

    Dan



  17. #17

    Default

    A friend and I wanted to order two doses of DF. I talked to Judy Yancey and she told me it wouldn't be cost effective for her to bring any of his semen over unless she got a total of 10 doses ordered. So if anyone out there wants to place an order please let her know. She would only need eight more orders. She told me she thought her price would be 650 a dose.



  18. #18
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    Oct. 29, 2008
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    Default

    Thanks Dan. I wasn't asking about breeding to a TB (approved Hanoverian), but rather about a mare who falls into the "Half-blood" category in Germany - eg, her dam is from an approved TB - such as a Lauries Crusador or Prince Orac daughter, thus making the mare in question1/4 TB.
    I've heard the same comment from Dr Christmann, saying there is now enough TB in "the recipe" (as a generality), and the Verband want to ensure legs are correct and not too spindly.



  19. #19
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    Sep. 17, 2003
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    Howell, Michigan
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    Default

    I was just trying to say that the pendulum is starting to swing back to the type of horse that has a little substance.

    Of course the mare still needs to be a good match for the stallion. The mare we are planning to breed to Don Frederic is by San Amour. This mare has plenty of refinement to be a good match with Don Frederic.

    Dan



  20. #20
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    Oct. 29, 2008
    Posts
    1,660

    Default

    Neat. I think a San Amour match might be super. What about a very refined Sir Donerhall? I worry that is not enough "like-to-like", with the mare being super refined, even if her genotype is not.



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