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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2011
    Posts
    142

    Default Okay I'm tired and crying...

    from reading the posts about the old mare in off course but i do have a question that i know has been discussed before. I'm just too tired to find it...i'm really sorry!.....i have an 11 year old TB gelding (hunter). I got him recently. I want to put him on a joint supplement because we will be jumping (2'6"-3') soon. I want to put him on a joint supplement but i just can't digest all of the information out there. truly, i don't even know what to look for! Can any of you recommend a tried and true supplement that you use on your hunters or jumpers? TYSM!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,209

    Default

    Oral--Cosequin ASU or 20,000 mg MSM
    Injectable--Pentosan



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    Tried? All of them.

    True? Not satisfied that any of them have demonstrated much more than very marginal benefit.

    For my money (about $20/month) I'd do a monthly Pentosan IM injection, or if I had to choose something oral I'd go with MSM and that's pretty much it.
    Click here before you buy.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2008
    Posts
    921

    Default

    I took my old guy off all joint supplements. They were doing diddly squat.

    Many studies have shown that fatty acids are the only true supplement to help arthritis.

    He has never been sounder/happier.

    M wallet is also much happier



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    Many studies have shown that fatty acids are the only true supplement to help arthritis.
    Can you share an example of such a study, and/or precisely what/which fatty acids you are referring to?
    Click here before you buy.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2007
    Location
    North San Diego County, CA
    Posts
    1,068

    Default

    I'm guessing its Omega 3 fatty acids such as in HorseShine. That worked effectively with my older gelding and with me, too (8g flax oil per day).



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    3,963

    Default

    I tried several and couldn't tell much if any difference with any of them. Probably liked MSM the best. You need at least 10,000mg/day. But don't get sucked into marketing...just because it's out there doesn't mean he needs it.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Recovery EQ HA - try it for up to 3 months, it will either help or it won't; most horses that respond, will do so within a few weeks.
    I personally would not go with injections for (possible) preventative maintenance; if you have a diagnosis & vet prescribes an injectable drug, then it's time.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    7,621

    Default

    Recovery EQ has worked for a gelding we look after. He is happily going under saddle again.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Location
    Area VI
    Posts
    1,719

    Default

    http://www.springtimeinc.com/product...entrate/horses

    We put my first horse on that for the arthritis in his shoulders, and we noticed a major improvement. He was much more comfortable, had more swing, and was overall easier to ride.

    Our vet recommended that over Cosequin, and we loved the cost!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2002
    Location
    The horse country of VA
    Posts
    3,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    http://www.springtimeinc.com/product...entrate/horses

    We put my first horse on that for the arthritis in his shoulders, and we noticed a major improvement. He was much more comfortable, had more swing, and was overall easier to ride.

    Our vet recommended that over Cosequin, and we loved the cost!
    You'll love the cost even more here (less than half the price of Springtime):
    http://purebulk.com/chondroitin-sulfate-usa

    Equus Keepus Brokus



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,310

    Default

    I think it depends on what you want out of a joint supplement.

    My 16 year old TB mare is mildly arthritic. My vet suggested regular exercise, and a joint supplement (I use Smart Flex Senior). His opinion was that some horses might show a noticeable difference in comfort with an oral joint supplement, but most of the benefit is keeping joints healthy for as long as possible - essentially it may extend the period of time before you need to go to IM (Pentosan) or ultimately hock injections. They are more of a preventative or health supplement, and won't give most horses much immediate benefit.

    So...depends on what you want...



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2004
    Location
    Bluffton, SC
    Posts
    3,124

    Default

    If your horse is not showing any signs of a joint problem and you are looking for preventative maintenance, go with something oral. Cortaflx is a good one. My mate was on that one for years. I'm also very fond of the smart flex line. She's now on Smartflex senior but they are pricier and she needs it. Arthritis is confirmed and shows which is why I made the change.
    Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2012
    Posts
    112

    Default

    I have had my horse on all different types of joint supplements and I noticed no difference between when he was on them to when he was not. If you have money, I heard that Cosequin ASU, the SmartFlex line from SmarkPak and Conquer liquid are good. I spoke to my vet and she said it is hit and miss with joint supplements. One might work for one horse and not another.

    The one thing that I do like is MSM. I believe you can feed up to 15,000 mg, maybe even 20,000 mg, safely and it will help any swelling and inflammation from general work and/or arthritis under control.

    I also heard that Omega-3s are good for joints. Omega Horseshine is a great supplement. I had my horse on it for years until he started refusing to eat it. I loved it.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    16,618

    Default

    I did see a huge difference in one of mine on Smart Flex Senior. Wasn't my imagination...even the farrier noticed it and we had done nothing different.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2012
    Location
    Vermont
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    4,836

    Default

    Any negative side effects of feeding MSM to a horse with ulcers (or who is prone to getting ulcers?) What about an Omega-3 supplement?

    I wanted to put my mare on MSM for her arthritis, but didn't want to mess with oral supplements that would cause an ulcer flare up.

    She also has a very rough, dull coat, even on good quality feed, so I was thinking of adding an Omega-3 supplement.

    THoughts?
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,053

    Default

    My Thoughts????

    If she has a dull, rough coat? Hows her worming schedual? Done a fecal?

    A little corn oil, like 1/4 cup a day goes a long way for the coat even though it is not fashionable or celebrity endorsed. If you want to stick to the well advertised stuff with a pretty picture, just buy a basic coat supplement. There is NO hard research on Omega 3s and 6s in herbivores like equines.

    Far as the MSM to treat arthritis? Why? If it is a mild anti inflammatory, it's going to work like an nsaid drug and it will bother ulcers. But there is little or no hard research out there either way. Common sense says if it has ulcers and needs some type of anti inflammatory? It needs to stay out of the stomach therefore needs to be an injectable. Are you sure it has ulcers? Do you treat them-they are far more problematic then arthritis and normal wear and tear? Might even be partly responsible for that rough coat.

    My lengthy experience with maintaining the arthritic performance horse showed me most of the stuff does nothing. Absolutely no change, and I gave them about 90 days to work or decide they did not.

    The stuff that did work was more expensive but not every expensive product produced any effect at all.

    The things that did have an effect that I could see were the injectable Adequan and Legend (HA) and the more expensive oral HA products in liquid form (LubriSyn and Hyalauronex). A glucosamine product, Glucosimine 5500 IIRC, also seemed to have an effect but not as dramatic as the HAs. Those I could see a definate difference when horse was on them or not. The HAs did almost nothing after the hock joints fused. Joint injections also helped but after the joint fused, no place to inject.

    That horse is now retired and on absolutely nothing except Previcox 3 times a week, moves better then she has in years...although not having to work regularly has to be factored in there.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2002
    Posts
    2,331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by muffintop View Post
    i have an 11 year old TB gelding (hunter). I got him recently. I want to put him on a joint supplement because we will be jumping (2'6"-3') soon. I want to put him on a joint supplement
    1. He's not that old
    2. You're not jumping that high
    3. So why do you want him on a supp? Is he showing signs of soreness or lameness?

    Save your money. Actually, save LOTS of money - keep him on 24/7 pasture board. The continual movement will keep him sounder longer than any oral supps and quite a few injectables.

    And as far as I know there are no studies showing that oral supps work preventatively. (Anyone seen such a study?)

    Signed, person who has tried a LOT of different joint supps and saw NO difference.
    ............................................
    http://www.xanthoria.com/OTTB
    ............................................



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    4,836

    Default

    See responses on blue below

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    My Thoughts????

    If she has a dull, rough coat? Hows her worming schedual? Done a fecal? Fecal done a month or two ago, showed small and large strongyles, treated with Panacur Powerpac and Ivermectin two weeks later because she also had bots, which were confirmed via gastroscope, we saw them in there, yuck!

    A little corn oil, like 1/4 cup a day goes a long way for the coat even though it is not fashionable or celebrity endorsed. If you want to stick to the well advertised stuff with a pretty picture, just buy a basic coat supplement. There is NO hard research on Omega 3s and 6s in herbivores like equines.

    Far as the MSM to treat arthritis? Why? If it is a mild anti inflammatory, it's going to work like an nsaid drug and it will bother ulcers. That is why I asked the question...I wanted to know if it would irritate or create ulcers like NSAIDS couldBut there is little or no hard research out there either way. Common sense says if it has ulcers and needs some type of anti inflammatory? It needs to stay out of the stomach therefore needs to be an injectable. Again, that is why I was asking...we did injections twice in the past, they worked ggreat, but were expensive. That is why I was wondering about MSM as a maintenance approach since she is retired to a trail horse. Are you sure it has ulcers? Do you treat them-they are far more problematic then arthritis and normal wear and tear? Might even be partly responsible for that rough coat. Yes, she did have ulcers, confirmed with gastroscope, that is why I was asking the question Yes, we treated them, yes they are now healed, also confirmed via gastroscope

    My lengthy experience with maintaining the arthritic performance horse showed me most of the stuff does nothing. Absolutely no change, and I gave them about 90 days to work or decide they did not.

    The stuff that did work was more expensive but not every expensive product produced any effect at all.

    The things that did have an effect that I could see were the injectable Adequan and Legend (HA) and the more expensive oral HA products in liquid form (LubriSyn and Hyalauronex). A glucosamine product, Glucosimine 5500 IIRC, also seemed to have an effect but not as dramatic as the HAs. Those I could see a definate difference when horse was on them or not. The HAs did almost nothing after the hock joints fused. Joint injections also helped but after the joint fused, no place to inject.

    That horse is now retired and on absolutely nothing except Previcox 3 times a week, moves better then she has in years...although not having to work regularly has to be factored in there.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    If it is a mild anti inflammatory, it's going to work like an nsaid drug and it will bother ulcers.
    As far as I'm aware the anti-inflammatory properties of DMSO/MSM are *NOT* prostaglandin-mediated and therefore the drug is not in the same class of NSAIDs as bute, aspirin, etc. Whether or not it will cause problems with ulcers is probably not known for certain.

    While it's true that many of the "natural" supplements out there (devil's claw, turmeric, etc.) are de facto antiprostaglandin-type NSAIDs and therefore must be treated with the same precaution, I'm not sure MSM/DMSO fall into this category. While it could quite correctly be called an NSAID, I do NOT believe its action is one of prostaglandin inhibition, which is where the more traditional NSAIDs can wreak havoc on stomachs and kidneys.

    That said, I'll restate my opinion that I think just about all of these supplements are just very slightly better than worthless. If they cost a nickel a month I'd say that would be a fair price.
    Last edited by deltawave; Mar. 14, 2012 at 02:57 PM.
    Click here before you buy.



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