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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    1,190

    Default Getting a mare approved - is it possible or necessary?

    I have a wonderful mare that is expecting her first foal this Spring (April 30 and SO excited!!!). She is my event horse and if any mare was ever worthy of being bred, it is this mare. She is absolutely gorgeous with fabulous conformation. Rideability++ and fancy. Has won the dressage at every event we have done together and has never had a jump fault at competition in her entire career (and she is going to be 16 this year). Never mare-ish, perfect temperment, great manners, etc. She is currently bred to an unapproved, but absolutely stunning, Oldenburg stallion "Sting" who is by Santa Cruz. This foal will obviously not be able to be registered, which is fine with me. I intend to keep him for myself and enjoy him as a gelding.

    I do want to breed my mare one more time next Spring. I have a stallion picked out (tentatively) that I just think is the most beautiful thing I've seen out there and he has a great track record for producing high class sport horses with big movement and incredible temperments. I also plan to keep the result of this cross for myself so that a few years down the road I will have 2 nice horses of my own to compete and enjoy. But since I have the year to plan and act before I re-breed her, I'm wondering if I should look into having my mare approved into any breed books so that the second foal can be branded.

    My mare is 1/2 TB and 1/2 Appaloosa (plain bay, no spots). Her TB side is all JC, and her Appaloosa side is heavy in TB blood with some QH blood and apparently just enough App in there to make her register-able as an App. She does have Appaloosa papers. The stallion I hope to breed to next year is Fabuleux, Elite class 1 Hanoverian stallion who is approved with the American Hanoverian Society (AHS) and German Hanoverian Verband (VhW)
    Also Fully Approved and Lifetime Breeding License from: ISR/Oldenburg N.A. German Oldenburg Verband(GOV/OHBS), and Canadian Sport Horse Association.

    Is there a place where I should work to get my mare approved that would accept her??? RPSI, Am warmblood, etc? If there is a registry that would take her, is it worth it? If I plan to keep the foal for myself, is there much benefit to having him registered/branded? I don't plan to sell him/her, but I don't want him to arrive and then wish I had done something with my mare so that he could be 'legit'. What do you guys think?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    3,997

    Default

    The ISR part of OldNA would probably put her in their lower mare book, and RPSI and both of the American Registries would also probably give you some sort of papers on her and register the foal. I've been to an OldNA inspection where there was a QH mare inspected. I think she was put in the pre-mare book and her foal was branded.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 9, 2011
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    161

    Default

    The IRS part of the OldNA enter my friend pony mare (who has no paper at all) in their lower book. She can now breed her to an OldNA stallion and register the foal with ISR.
    Vergissmeinnicht.
    Forgive me, between French, English, and German, I'm sometimes completly lost



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Thanks for the info! I'm reading up on the ISR/Old registry procedure. I have a few rookie questions...

    It looks like I could probably get my mare approved in the Mare Book or the Pre Mare Book. Since her foal that is coming this spring is by a full Oldenburg stallion (although not an approved one. long story) would it make sense to take both the mare and foal to inspection this Fall and get them both approved? Would this foal be eligible for anything? Although the stallion isn't approved, I think I can get his pedigree. Or would approval this Fall only be for the mare to benefit Foal #2?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    I think I just found the answer to my question. Looks like even if my mare gets approved, Foal #1 will not be eligible. The stallion is really great and has a fantastic pedigree, but he is not approved. :/

    must be by an ISR/Oldenburg N.A. Licensed or Approved Breeding Stallion or the sire must have had a Certified Breeding License for the year of breeding. Check the STALLIONS site for the list of approved stallions.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,887

    Default

    As an aside, you probably just guaranteed your mare's foal will be a filly with your proclamation of your plans for her gelding!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Lol! I'd be thrilled to have a filly too. Either is fine. I said that about gelding so that it would be clear that I have no intention to keep a stallion to breed.


    And since I'm back... I'm looking now at the American Hanoverian Society's website. My thought process is to see how Foal #2 can be registered assuming that my mare gets approved ISR this Fall. The ISR/Old website was very clear about eligibility, but I'm having trouble finding clear rules on the AHS site. Sorry, I know it shouldn't be so hard. This stuff gets so confusing to me! I know Fabuleux is approved Old. so if my mare is approved ISR the foal should be eligible in that registry. I'm just looking at options. Any ideas?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2006
    Location
    N FL
    Posts
    746

    Default

    I was also going to suggest old/na since even if the mare has no papers they will put her in a mare book so if using an old/na stallion foal can be registered and that is the most important part. Your mare has proved herself to you and that's why you are breeding her, the registration of the foal even though you plan on keeping baby, is a safety net in case something ever does happen and you have to sell. I'm in the same boat, just wanna see foal registered and am planning on going with old/na especially since its the closest inspection. I had originally planned on rpsi but I really didn't matter to me. The stallion I choose is approved with just about every registry. Good luck!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
    Location
    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,486

    Default

    Regarding the American Hanoverian Society, if the stallion is an approved Hanoverian stallion, then the second foal could get a certificate of pedigree from the AHS, but the mare cannot be inspected and approved with them, as they do not permit Appaloosa blood into the registry.

    If you want registration papers, then if the stallion is approved ISR/ONA, I'd present the mare to them and get her into the ISR books to get the foal full registration papers with ISR.

    Or you could go with the American Warmblood Society.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2009
    Posts
    477

    Default Knabstrabber

    I am sure I botched the spelling but what aobut the European sport horse appaloosas? I would go there with her, but I am a breeder and I tend to breed for breeding stock. I dont like my mare in a 'lower' book. I would check out the Knabstrabbers and breed to one of those stallions. There was a quite good on who did the 70 days test in 2010..

    American appaloosas have not been bred for "sport" so I would not go that direction.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2000
    Location
    Alvin, TX
    Posts
    1,050

    Default

    If you can get an 'official' pedigree that shows she has more than 50% TB blood, she is eligible for the ISR main mare book. As someone else said, the foal she is carrying now cannot be registered since the sire is not an approved OLD stallion.

    I had a half Arab, half Paint (heavy foundation QH breeding) and her Arab blood was considered sport horse, and I was able to see on her Paint sire's pedigree that he had a TB in there, making her more than 50% 'approved sporthorse' breeding. I got a certified pedigree from the Paint registry and she was approved and entered into the ISR book. They want to see, I think more than 85% sporthorse pedigree (TB, warmblood or Arab) for the Oldenburg book. I bred that mare to an Oldenburg licensed stallion and the resulting foal was inspected and was branded ISR. When she was 4, I took her to an inspection and did the mare perfomrance test with her, and she earned a premium score, which moved her up to the Main Oldenburg Mare book. If I ever breed her, and she has a foal that earns a premium, she will be moved to the Premium Mare book. LIke you, my half Arab mare had proved herself in every way in open, recognized dressage competition and I only breed for horses to keep myself. I bred my mare twice, too, and am so glad I did. The full sisters are both very talented and have super work ethics. There is really nothing quite like breeding a beloved mare and having it turn out well!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,064

    Default knappstrupper

    Take a look here

    http://knabstruppers.com/bylaws.htm#registration

    and

    http://knabstruppers.com/

    It looks like if she is Pre book but at least she gets "paperwork".

    Although if you are interested in Fabuleux Knap would be a waste of your time because he is not an approved Knabb stallion.

    Does she have any app traits other than not having spots? She may carry spotting but not show it "loudly"

    ETA: "European sport horse appaloosas" I really feel this is a wrong title for the knappstrupper. Maybe back in the day they did share some of the same lines I think they are 2 different types now. I may be wrong and you Knappies please correct me
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Thank you all for all of the information. It is helpful. I'm just very new to the rules and loop holes of breed registries. I just want a bit of a safe guard for myself and the foal(s) so that I have options in the future if I ever decided or needed to sell. And there is some selfish pride in having your nice homebred branded.

    I think the best option for me is going to be ISR. I am also going to look into AWR. A friend of mine is having her TB mare approved RPSI this year for her future foals, but I'm not sure yet if they will consider a mare with App blood. Since I have a stallion already picked out that is ISR/Old approved, I might as well go that direction. Thanks for all of the info!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,064

    Default

    RPSI would consider her. She would get a half brand instead of the full brand (will just get the arches and not the crown over top of the arches)
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2010
    Posts
    1,678

    Default

    On that topic, some of the registries require you and your mare be "members" in the year of breeding AND the year the foal is approved, others don't worry about it until the year of foaling, so look at that as you are selecting your registry - ISR, RPSI, AWS, or whomever.

    By the way, AWS will inspect and register your foal from the unapproved stallion - they inspect each foal based on their individual merit, rather then whether the sire was approved by them, so if you are looking for a registration option - they are very user friendly!



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