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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Mirabel, QC
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    Default Share your experience - Producing a hunter

    In my experience, and from what I have noticed, it seems the "best" way to produce a hunter to either use a hunter stallion and a hunter mare (that's the "duh" recipe) and...

    Use a jumper stallion on a hunter mare.

    The movement mechanics seem to come from the dam. My best hunter foal experiment was using a mare with hack winning movement, but more limited jumping ability, with a stallion with greater jumping ability.

    The reason I am asking is that I have a filly who is not a hack-winning mover, great slow canter though. But she'll have more scope. Her dam is not a hunter mover either.

    A good hunter must be the "whole package".

    Has anyone had any experience using a mare who didn't have that perfect hunter movement and still got a foal with it? If so, who was the daddy?

    At this point, I am curious as to if it can even be done at all!

    TIA
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  2. #2

    Default

    You should talk to the gals at Signature Sporthorses...they have a lot of experience in that regard.
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
    RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 8, 2010
    Posts
    331

    Default

    friend of mine had a nothing special TB mare. she bred her twice to Popeye K and both foals are fantastic movers with lots of athletic ability and nice jump



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Mirabel, QC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by horsechick View Post
    You should talk to the gals at Signature Sporthorses...they have a lot of experience in that regard.
    Heehee, I was hoping they'd see my post actually!

    This is all a theoric discussion, the filly is most likely slated to a performance career before anything else... So breeding would be in a few years, if ever!
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 13, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    Default

    We have found that the movement of the foal seems to always follow the mechanics of the mare. The stallion seems to help to some degree with things like elasticily and suspension/engagement. Our philosphy is different then some because we don't feel compelled to only use a stallion that has shown in the hunters. So many good sires have never stepped foot in the hunter ring, especailly those in Europe or those imported later in the career (like Regazzoni or White Star).
    Many or our mares have "jump" so we do use a lot of "dressage" stallions (but most if not all also have excellent jumping scores at their testing). Certainly we look at things that are important to most hunter riders like an excellent disposition, movement, jump, and then the all important superfical list that ain't so superficial to buyers like pretty head etc.....

    But back to your question about movement, I think it would depend on what is lacking in the movement? Do you have any video.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
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    Default

    Thank you monami

    I don't have any decent video, except of this filly running around and bucking and farting.

    (Like this one: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150537865127705 just crazy stuff )

    (Oh and ignore Mini Me trotting behind That's her younger half-sister by Wolkentanz II)
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    143

    Talking

    What a small world.....

    Hey Equus Mag, did you know that Sig Sorthorse has that sexy mare that was at my place for a bit? Felicita....the chestnut blingy girl. She is in foal to Sir Wanabi and I think that, without a doubt, that will produce a smashing hunter.
    Are you talking about breeding your gorgeous TB filly? Heck, Sir Wanabi is almost walking- distance from you

    That would be my suggestion for her.

    monami: I am on pins and needles waiting to see Felicita's foal.....tell her to hurry up already!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    Sunbury, NC
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    Hey! We're definitely so excited for Felicita's foal. She is getting pretty big, but still has 5-6 weeks to go. Ugh... the waiting seems endless! We have several ahead of her to foal that will be a good distraction.
    Signature Sporthorses
    www.signaturesporthorses.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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    Default

    I think that once Equus Magnificus sees Felicita's foal she'll book her lovely filly to Sir Wanabi....I just know it ;-)

    I've seen EM's TB mare in person and she is really, really nice (and I am not a huge TB fan to begin with, so that says alot)



  10. #10
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    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Mirabel, QC
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    Default

    Thank you Hawkridge!

    Yes, I had a breeding to Sir Wanabi, but sold it with a broodmare last year.

    And yes re. walking distance. Plus I consider Sandra among my friends.
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  11. #11

    Default

    you could hedge your bets and breed to a stallion with fantastic jumper blood that moves and jumps like a hunter. I may know where you could find one of those ;-)
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
    RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com



  12. #12
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    Aug. 13, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Default

    I am assuming that she is probably protecting herself a little due to the snow but I think she has a nice canter and could use help in the engine and freedom of shoulder (and of course a little less fetlock knee action). I agree that Amazing would probably be a nice cross others may be Don Alfredo, Furst Impression and Harvard.

    I can't wait to see Felicita's foal! She is such a sweet sweet girl!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 10, 2011
    Posts
    121

    Default producing a hunter

    I have been wanting to ask for some time, and at the risk of sounding quite stupid, here goes:

    Some here say that movement is passed on by the mare. This seems to defy basic genetic principles of 50% stallion, 50% mare.
    So is movement a "learned " trait from the mother? When an ET foal is born, does it move like its ET mother or its genetic mother?

    An exceptional moving hunter stallion doesn't have much chance of passing on his great movement?

    This would lead me to believe the best candidate for a stallion would be an incredible jumper, and don't worry about his movement.

    Are there any other traits that are passed on by one sex only?



  14. #14
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    Aug. 13, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Default

    The mechanics of the movement is just a trait that seems to be heavily influnced by the mare. You can never consider breeding as a 50/50 split between the mare/sire, it just does not work that way.

    Also, the more you breed a mare the more you learn what other desirable or not so desirable traits they seem to pass down.



  15. #15
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    Aug. 2, 2009
    Location
    Osteen, FL
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    Default

    I remember several people on this board saying that in jumpers, the "jump gene" so to speak comes primarily through the dam.
    Ryu Equestrian & Facebook Page
    Breeding Horses Today, for the Equestrian Sport of Tomorrow.
    Osteen & Gainesville, Florida.



  16. #16
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Default

    I got a beautiful hunter filly crossing a good moving laid back mare but more dressage bred to a super jumper and improved exactly what I wanted ( the jump and how) without losing the good movement of the mare. Now THAT filly now mare (after showing for as long as I could afford it..and doing VERY well) is in foal to Sir Wanabi and due VERY soon!


    I have a very athletic, pretty and lovely moving TB mare ALSO in foal to Sir Wanabi - she has no show record but gorgeous conformation.

    We shall see!
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 10, 2011
    Posts
    121

    Default breeding a hunter

    Many times (outside of this thread in fact) I have heard the mare greatly influences movement, more than the stallion.

    Is this his genetic behavior or is it learned by the foal in infancy?

    Is it not true that stallion is 50% and mare is 50% of genetics and dominant genes are what shows phenotypically?

    Is movement of the mare passed on to the offspring by genetics or learned?

    Outrageous case in point, "Can I breed my hack winning hunter mare to Diarado and have a winning hunter?" Extreme example, so start the flames now.

    No misrespect intended. Thank you.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2006
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    out west
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    3,472

    Default

    I bred a hunter type tb mare with really flat kneed movement to a jumper stallion that has both dressage bloodlines (idocus) and jumper bloodlines (galoubet) and the foal has hunter movement with more elasticity. He lacks some of the super flat kneed movement at the trot, but his canter is more elastic. So I still think his mother would beat him in a hack class, but he has much more jumping ability. Not to mention he is 10 times braver then her!

    I re-bred her to the same stallion this year and she is due soon, so I will update on the new foals movement! She will be bred to a welsh pony this year and that foal should move amazing!

    Another note, their walks are very similar, and I think the added elasticity to the foals movement made him lose the flatness, but I am ok with it because he seems much more athletic jump wise.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by huntcup View Post
    Many times (outside of this thread in fact) I have heard the mare greatly influences movement, more than the stallion.

    Is this his genetic behavior or is it learned by the foal in infancy?

    Is it not true that stallion is 50% and mare is 50% of genetics and dominant genes are what shows phenotypically?

    Is movement of the mare passed on to the offspring by genetics or learned?

    Outrageous case in point, "Can I breed my hack winning hunter mare to Diarado and have a winning hunter?" Extreme
    example, so start the flames now.

    No misrespect intended. Thank you.
    .
    I don't think the question unreasonable at all HC ... I myself am drawn to great jumpers as sire prospects for " hunter type"
    mares. The challenge is of course that we have no reliable data, the horses that show in Hunter Derbys are not the 3' hunters and goals of the breeding program get clouded. To your point re Diarado? I myself would not choose him. Talented ...yes! Hot SF type? Yes. Would any mare bring that blood down to requirements of the hunter ring? Probably not.
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Default

    Forgot to add that I am nuts about feet. The mare that I owned, Miss Marple, mare I bought in Europe, mother of Simone, has lousy feet. Mule hooves. Issues while I had the mare. I think looking at the feet/ hooves/ ankle conformation? All about improving the weaknesses.
    As an aside, great NPR piece about milk cows and breeding the uber producer! The big operations have "genetic experts" come evaluate their herds and match each bull to each cow based on what that "cow" needs improving! Huge genetic data !

    Gee - the cow breeders way ahead of us?
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



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