[Posse977]

Moonkitty- that was me.

I am also a firefighter. My current farm is way at the back of an estate, and there is no way that an engine would be able to get back there. The nearest hydrant (we are lucky enough to have hydrants) is across the street. If there was a fire at my house or barn, it would mean hand jacking hose a minimum of 700'. To top it off, before I started working for the city, no one- neither police not fire- knew that my house/barn existed.

Have your local FD out to your barn. They can give you some tips on making it safer, plus, they will know your layout, how many horses are there, and the easiest way to deal with your horses. For example, my FD knows to "get the white horse first" and the rest will follow. They know where to shoo them to- two places, depending on the fire and wind direction, where the electric is, and that the fences are electric. They know that the hay is stored upstairs in the loft, and that the whole place will go up very, very quickly. All they will be able to do, is, hopefully, get the boys out and keep the fire from spreading to the exposures.

[ladybug01]

The sad thing is, after watching a barn burn. (it was old, half full of bad hay and that was the way they demolished it, sad) It goes up very quickly, the heat is tremendous, you would not have much time to do much, even if you noticed it right away. This was a large old bank barn.
Prevention is the key.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.

Standardbred clique

[tcgelec]

EvaleeHunter

Thank you for your post. Some of the topics your questions refer to were covered in the additional articles I referred to. I just copied the first article in the series for this BB.
Anyway, I'll try to answer as best I can.
Metal conduit has not been an acceptable wiring method in agricultural buildings for the last few code cycles. (Article 547, National Electrical Code, NFPA). Austensibly because metal in an environment like a barn, with high moisture content, corrosive atmosphere, and temperature variations, causes corrosion in the conduit.(Although they don't tell us why they make the changes usually)By the way, code changes are generally not retroactive, so if it was legal when you did it you're generally OK)
Yes, absolutely GFI outlets are required, and AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) circuit breakers, although not required, afford even more protection. I devoted an entire article to them, I just didn't include it here.
Similarly, yes absolutely, wet location covers are required. I just didn't intend for this to be a comprehensive set of instructions about how to wire a barn, merely an overview and a description of how I assess a barn electrically)
Yes, Type UF-B ("Underground Romex") is permitted in an agricultural building> It is much tougher than the "Romex" used in houses, and my experience is that the rodents don't usually chew it like they would "Romex". It is required that mechanical prtection be added where the cable is subject to damage, and that, to most inspectors, means sleeving it up to a point 8' above the floor with PVC conduit. For that reason, we just go ahead and do the whole job in PVC Conduit ususally.
Since I wrote that article, a new product has been approved for barns. It is PVC-coated MC Cable. If you think of "BX" cable that has been dipped in PVC, you won't be too far off. It is good, but both the cable and the fittings are expensive. I would save this for those instances where conduit just won't work, such as snaking into a wall cavity.
I hope I've been helpful. Like I said, I didn't mean to cover everything but I thank you for pointing out areas where people might need more information.
I was surprised that it took so long for someone to question the metal conduit thing. When I give talks, people usually question that right away!
Tom G.

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

[ponyjumper4]

After my non-horsey mom read about the 20+ thoroughbreds that died recently in a barn fire she said we will do whatever it takes to install sprinklers, build the barn either right next or under my house and have a fire alarm or something of that sort so that it could be heard in my house. In addition of course to all the other prevention steps.

Adult Pony Rider Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
Disgruntled College Student Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_mad.gif
QH Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...icon_smile.gif
NC Clique :P

[tcgelec]

We had a guy from a fire sprinkler company come to one of our horse association meetings, and the problems with sprinklers are that, first, in a non-heated building, water in the sprinkler pipes will freeze, so you need a systerm pre-charged with anti-freeze or with dry pipes (pressurized air holds back the water until a fire starts). This problem is surmountable. But second, and more importantly, you need about a 2" water main devoted just to the barn sprinklers, coming all the way from the municipal water main which in some cases is not possible and in some other cases, cost-prohibitive. You can't just tap off from the house, or from most well pumps. The volume of water needed for a fire sprinkler system is tremendous, and just not available in a lot of cases.

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

[retreadeventer]

A couple of years ago when there was a disastrous fire at a Standardbred training farm in NJ, many people were aghast at the way the fire started -- a water heater left on in a plastic bucket near the outside wall.
I wasn't at all surprised. Having been a barn manager for commercial stables for about 15 years, most of the fire prevention I can talk about is caused by people, not wiring and not construction. People are the biggest danger.
They leave horse's stall doors propped shut with string, twine, cement blocks, and chains. They leave extension cords within reach of horses and other critters in the aisle and fail to unplug fans, water heaters, etc. when they leave. Many people do not shut doors or turn off lights in a barn when they leave, why, you would do this in your house? wouldn't you? People leave hay, other combustibles and bedding stacked in front of their horses stalls or near entrances where they could catch on fire and block exit. They take halters off the horses and leave them somewhere other than nearby, (we halter our horses at all times.) Lead ropes are tied up somewhere instead of hanging free to grasp quickly. They leave cars running parked on grass and sweep hay leavings and shavings out barn doors then park trucks and cars over them to get just two steps closer so they don't have to walk. They leave items in the aisle to trip over in the dark, and also encourage rodents with dirt, old grain and hay, food, and garbage. We don't stack stuff in front of doors at all. We don't eat in our barn at all and nobody is allowed to put McDonalds wrappers, etc. in barn trash. Rodents chew wiring, so we are very vigilant about them. Smoking! Gah! cigarette butts around barns...my goodness I could go on. My point is people are the problem and people start fires in barns. Have safe fire habits when you take care of your horses.
Hollihorse

[JumpTheMoon01]

There have been cases of barn fires because of lot's of moisture inside the bales of hay that begins to get very hot. It's not common but it is possible. Kinda weird.

[LoriO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Posse977:
I am also a firefighter. My current farm is way at the back of an estate, and there is no way that an engine would be able to get back there. The nearest hydrant (we are lucky enough to have hydrants) is across the street. If there was a fire at my house or barn, it would mean hand jacking hose a minimum of 700'. To top it off, before I started working for the city, no one- neither police not fire- knew that my house/barn existed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

700' of line to lay in??? OUCH!!!!! Could you possibly get old hose from your department that has been taken out of service and an old nozzle? Just an idea but if you get enough hose to lay in a single hand line you can make a cart to store it on up at the barn. Maybe set it up in a minute man load. In an emergency you can drop the minute man load at the top and run the cart from the barn down to where the apparatus will be laying down the line as you go. It would be a quick way to at least get a single hand line up and running until you can lay in more line by hand.

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

[Posse977]

Yeah- it's pretty bad! We are working on plans for something similar to what you suggested, but I fear we won't get it done. We will be moving in a couple of months.
The new barn will be interesting- no hydrant, no on property water source. It's a township and they are VERY adept at water shuttling. Luckily, the closest drafting source is not far up the road- and the FD is just past that.

[LoriO]

Tanker shuttles,,,ugh!!!! Granted they aren't that bad, but usually these end up being on the nights where the temps are freezing and everything just turns to ice!! Thankfully you have a good drafting location nearby, that is half the battle.

Good to know that my post before at least made sense to you!! Good luck with everything.

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

[RRB]

Just wanted to add -- if you have your local fire department out to the barn, also help them understand a bit more about your horses, your barn, your schedule.

Do the horses go out at night? or are they in the barn?

Where are halters kept? How can they make an emergency halter out of rope or twine?

Where is hay stored?

Etc.

--R