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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rel6 View Post
    Anyone else think this is a little bit of overkill? This is a child we're talking about. Made a stupid stupid mistake, sounded extremely ignorant, I get it. And skittlespony was definitely naive to think they could just post here without it being brought up again and again (I really don't understand why she still continues to post with such an infamous name...)

    But aren't we supposed to be adults? By the vigor with which AmmyByNature is attacking her, I would think Ammy was personally wronged. She's a kid who made a dumb mistake. But I'm now seeing some people (some, not all!) acting much more mature in this thread right now...I'm bracing to get flamed but it just seems a little unnecessary.
    Except, she keeps making the mistake over and over and over again and it's starting to get a bit ridiculous.
    Last edited by MySuperExAlter; Mar. 1, 2012 at 01:05 PM. Reason: spelling



  2. #42
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    In before the lock...

    Cheaper to buy American.
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep."
    - Harry Dresden

    Horse Isle 2: Legend of the Esrohs LifeCycle Breeding and competition MMORPG



  3. #43
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    Can we for once just answer the question? I find it interesting that in the Dear George thread, people are up in arms about an adult criticizing a minor, but when the OP is clearly a minor, adults are free to attack her for asking a question.

    To the OP: Importing a horse is a very expensive endeavor. It is much more practical to find a horse that fits the bill near you.



  4. #44
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    Okay, I was trying not to get involved (apart from the dead horse, haha), but please allow me to say, as politely as possible to both sides...

    The OP caused a lot of friction on the boards. I read some of her past threads, and yes, she acted like an insolant, ignorant spoiled brat. I know that COTH can be a very close knit community despite its size, so it's only natural that the people who frequent and most likely tried to help her originally are peeved that she's still here asking for advice.

    BUT. It's not all that mature to jump all over her for past posts when she asked a simple question. There's a good chance that she is just dreaming, and it's not within her reach, which many of you may realize due to past posts. However, she was neither rude nor bratty in her original post. It was only after she was immediately pounced on that she started reacting. Most cornered dogs would lash out as well.

    Right or wrong, we're all just banging our heads on the table. Why don't we all just make an effort not to immediately revert back to bashing her without a good current reason? I think we all know it's not really worth the effort, anyway. Doesn't seem to be getting through.

    OP, I strongly suggest you either, A) do as a previous poster suggested and make a thread apologizing for how you acted or were perceived to have acted so that you might be able to be involved in productive threads in the future (BE WARNED, if you start getting defensive during this attempt you will put the final nail in your coffin, rest assured), or B) make a new user name, post with maturity and dignity, avoid drama, and hope people don't put two and two together.



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by skittlespony View Post
    Just had a couple questions about importing a horse to assure myself.

    1. Is it cheaper to Import a nice warmblood than to buy one?
    2. How much does it cost just to Import?
    3. Why are Warmbloods so cheap in Europe I have seen really nice ones for $10,000 USD?
    4. Is it worth it to go through the trouble of Importing?

    Just asking a few questions because I am debating whether or not it would be worth it for me to import a horse or not?
    TIA!
    If you use the Search function, this has been discussed

    & discussed

    & discussed

    in the last year (& the year before that if you really want to delve into ancient history)

    & none of the answers have changed in all that time ...

    If you go back & read some of those older threads, they really are worth the effort (including why it's much cheaper to import young stock & geldings).



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rel6 View Post
    Anyone else think this is a little bit of overkill? This is a child we're talking about. Made a stupid stupid mistake, sounded extremely ignorant, I get it. And skittlespony was definitely naive to think they could just post here without it being brought up again and again (I really don't understand why she still continues to post with such an infamous name...)

    But aren't we supposed to be adults? By the vigor with which AmmyByNature is attacking her, I would think Ammy was personally wronged. She's a kid who made a dumb mistake. But I'm now seeing some people (some, not all!) acting much more mature in this thread right now...I'm bracing to get flamed but it just seems a little unnecessary.
    Children get far too much attention in this world. From mini rock stars to youTube sensations to Jersey Shore to the resulting drunken stardom that inevitably ensues, this is just another example. We boost their little egos until they have no choice but to believe that they do, indeed, know. it. all. And this sport is particularly bad about it, probably because of the celebrity that is often linked to it.

    We've hung on, quoted, and researched every word of this child, giving her every right to believe she is Important and reaffirm an already borderline insolent attitude. She made a dumb mistake and gravely needs to work on her egg-like outer shell, but yeah. I read the other threads at the time, there has still GOT to be better things to do than feed this child's ego.

    I rarely let my cynical side loose on here... and I'm a little annoyed with myself for wasting some of my lunchbreak on this so I'll try to wrap up constructively. Skittles you served as a convenient example, so don't let my words scramble your eggs. It's expensive to import and it's a crap-shoot. And you're most likely to be successful with it if you have some serious experience on less than perfect but ALSO seriously athletic animals. IMO, it's not the faults of the horse you happen to pick out that gets green riders, it's the athleticism you've never experienced. And a young, well-bred wb in europe is usually pretty darn athletic.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by skittlespony View Post
    The reason I ask is because Im not exactly filthy rich but this girl I know was looking for a big eq horse. She ended up going to Europe to possibly import a horse. She wasn't filthy rich either and couldn't afford the $50,000++ dollar Big Eq horse that you would get here in the USA. She bought a horse from Europe for 1/4 of the price it would have cost. The horse just from the training it received in Europe is just about as good of quality as a lot of the Big Eq horses here. This horse is also only 5.
    Uhuh. That sounds like a likely story

    First of all, add 100K to that price tag you put on the horse already in the states, then you're looking at a Big Eq. horse with some fair miles.

    Second, let's crunch some real numbers. For the most part, people buying horses from Europe are doing so through an agent; just removes some of the unknown. So your agent calls you up and tells you that they have four horses for you to see; when can you get on a plane? So you book a ticket for yourself and your trainer (assuming that if you're doing the Big Eq, you are working closely with a trainer that is going to want input on the horses you buy). Let's assume you're going from Boston to Amsterdam with a week's notice; that's an average of $1,200 PER TICKET. So if it's just you and your trainer, that's $2,400 in air fair...if a parent is going (which would also be likely), that puts the tickets at $3,600. Ouch.

    So you get to Amsterdam. You're going to have to drive to the farms where you're looking at horses, so you need to rent a car. That's going to be about $200 USD. Then you're going to need to pay for gas, meals, and a hotel. Gas is obscenely expensive in Europe. Let's assume that it's going to be $100 per person, per day to drive, eat, and stay. So assuming three people for four days, that's another $1,200...and you haven't even sat on a horse yet.

    Finally you're on your way to see those four horses. Let's put them in a bit of a more realistic price category. Let's say they're between 5 and 6 years old, WTC with a lead change, a few (local) shows under their belts, comfortably jumping 1.10 with an ammy and 1.20 with a pro. All Eq. horse types; not going to be the big jumper or hunter winner, but could cross over. Good temperaments, in the 16 to 17 hh range, attractive enough, etc. etc. There will likely be some hole somewhere, but it's reasonable for those horses to be in the 20-25K price range (that's probably a bit low-balling, but this is all for the sake of argument).

    So you try all four horses, you find two that you like and decide to vet the one you like best. That runs you about $2,000 including a consult from your vet in the states. If you're lucky, the first horse passes, and your pre-purchase costs are now in the $7,000 range. If that one fails and you choose to vet the other horse, you're now looking at closer to $11,000. So assuming the horse is $23,500 (if we take the average of 20 and 25), you're now looking at $34,500 before the horse arrives in the states.

    So you fly back home and now you start making arrangements with the airlines for your horse (let's assume you use KLM). You can't find a flight with a full pallet, and the farm your horse is at in Europe is charging you $800 a month for him to be there (or a day rate of about $28). So you book a flight with one other horse on the pallet which costs you about $6,500 (at least that's what I spent last time I did this). Assuming you bought a gelding, quarantine will be anywhere from 24 to 72 hours (I've never had a quarantine shorter than 3 days and I've had ones up to a week for geldings depending on how backed up the labs were). The minimum cost of quarantine is around $1,200, but it can cost you as much as $4,000 or more depending on a lot of factors. When determining cost, assume the worst.

    So now you have a horse that went from $23,500 to $34,500 to somewhere close to $40,000. And now you have to get the horse home from Newburgh. Hiring a commercial shipper will cost around a grand, doing it yourself will cost slightly less depending on gas milage, if someone needs to take time off from work, etc.

    ETA: Oh, and I totally forgot about commissions! Everyone involved usually gets 10%. If your lucky, the seller's commission is built into the purchase price, so the total cost of the horse only goes up $2,350. If not, you've just added another 5K.

    So your "less expensive" horse just cost you the same, if not more as a horse with the same record in the US.

    It's not cheaper and it's NOT easy.
    Nine out of ten times, you'll get it wrong...but it's that tenth time that you get it right that makes all the difference.



  8. #48
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    Jan. 11, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmyByNature View Post
    Realism, sweetie. Realism.

    You wanted to free lease a 3'6" horse to get you to the Big Eq finals by 2013 when you were currently jumping 2'6". First you were given a dose of reality, then people tried to talk to you about revamping your goals -- we suggested exercise riding, making a 3' goal, etc...

    Why don't we let everyone judge for themselves:

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=321930

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=322127

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=321659

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=280689

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=280688

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=324231
    Yes I do realize what I had said. But my point right now is who are you to tell me to revamp my goals. People were telling me what to do, and being quite rude about it too. Everyone was almost forcing the 3' goal down my throat, yo all could have ignored it but you chose to elevate a situation. Your upset that I lied and turned it around but what choice did you give me. Everyone was being vicious attacking me with text, and shoving things down my throat. Im sorry but you people caused the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    Some people wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears George Morris pajamas.
    This pretty much sums up everything!



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by skittlespony View Post
    Everyone was almost forcing the 3' goal down my throat, yo all could have ignored it but you chose to elevate a situation.
    So are you jumping 3'6" yet?



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by skittlespony View Post
    who are you to tell me to revamp my goals.

    yo all could have ignored it

    I lied

    what choice did you give me.

    you people caused the problem.
    Think about your own words - you always have choice: you might've easily ignored the advice that was unacceptable to you & just remained steadfast in your ambitions.

    In your own words:
    I was taught by my elders that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore them and walk away. To be honest its not that hard.


    I have gotten a lot of personal messages from people who are afraid to post on here publicly because this place is like a shark tank.

    If your opinion of this place is so low, why would you continue to engage in seeking advice.



  11. #51
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    Kids can be accountable just as much as adults can. Besides, she's not a kid, she's 15 or 16. If you're old enough to be allowed to drive a motor vehicle that can kill someone, you're old enough to be polite, honest, and take responsibility for your actions. I say that being 16.
    Trying a life outside of FEI tents and hotel rooms.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Think about your own words - you always have choice: you might've easily ignored the advice that was unacceptable to you & just remained steadfast in your ambitions.

    In your own words:
    I was taught by my elders that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore them and walk away. To be honest its not that hard.




    If your opinion of this place is so low, why would you continue to engage in seeking advice.
    The reason is because I had a legit question and I hoped people would just answer it and forget about the other stuff. I only wanted the answer to a question, not an ultimatum :\
    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    Some people wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears George Morris pajamas.
    This pretty much sums up everything!



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skittlespony View Post
    Im sorry but you people caused the problem.
    Alright, I take back my last post, and officially give up. *headdesk*



  14. #54
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    who gave you an ultimatum? And there are plenty of people who actually did give you advice. Maybe instead of continually getting at odds with people just accept the advice and ignore the rest?



  15. #55
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    Your upset that I lied and turned it around but what choice did you give me.
    I stopped giving benefit of the doubt to internet post-happy kids when a prior CoTH kid starved her horse to death.
    "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by skittlespony View Post
    The reason is because I had a legit question and I hoped people would just answer it and forget about the other stuff. I only wanted the answer to a question, not an ultimatum :\
    Truly, look up the previous threads, there are some wonderful posts by people who import regularly



  17. #57
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    To answer your question (and avoid the drama), NO. It is NOT cheaper to import. As so many others have said, it is a very expensive process that will quickly eclipse any "savings" you get on the purchase price.



  18. #58
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    headdesk...........headdesk..........headdesk..... .....and I'm assuming you'll not be taking my advice and admitting you made a mistake!!! You don't seem to understand that creating an alter to STALK YOURSELF and stir up so much trouble is NOT NORMAL!!

    Oh, and just to let you know, buying horses in Canada (esp Alberta) will NOT get you a horse that much cheaper (due to a little thing called the oil sands, Alberta is still booming). But, from what I've seen there are LOTS for sale in your own country......although I suspect you have no intention of buying anyway!
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerJumper View Post
    Kids can be accountable just as much as adults can. Besides, she's not a kid, she's 15 or 16. If you're old enough to be allowed to drive a motor vehicle that can kill someone, you're old enough to be polite, honest, and take responsibility for your actions. I say that being 16.
    Everyone who complains about posters jumping on a "kid" or picking on a "kid"--read this about 100 times.

    And no, importing's not cheap. It's not even cheap to get a horse back from Puerto Rico and that's technically the US. Playing in a big sandbox requires big money--there really isn't any way to cut corners and pinch pennies if you want a horse who's already even partway made.



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Everyone who complains about posters jumping on a "kid" or picking on a "kid"--read this about 100 times.

    And no, importing's not cheap. It's not even cheap to get a horse back from Puerto Rico and that's technically the US. Playing in a big sandbox requires big money--there really isn't any way to cut corners and pinch pennies if you want a horse who's already even partway made.
    Right, but then as someone else said refer to the "Dear George" thread where the OP was jumped on for criticizing a kid's equitation.



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