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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Sealed means they flatten it down instead of the usual fluffing up that they do to help the water run off.


    thx. sounds scary.



  2. #22
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    Jun. 7, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glimmerglass View Post
    To suggest my remarks are advocating censorship is patently wrong.

    I thought it patently apropos.

    "Supervision and control of the information and ideas that are circulated among the people within a society. In modern times, censorship refers to the examination of books, periodicals, plays, films, television and radio programs, news reports, and other communication media for the purpose of altering or suppressing parts thought to be objectionable or offensive."
    -- Funk & Wagnalls New World Encyclopedia
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  3. #23
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    San Jose, Ca
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    Ugggg poor horses, poor jockeys…

    I have to say, when I saw the headline, I thought, why are we jingling for Charels Town? Everything I have heard makes that place sound less the favorable for horses. I thought this thread was going to be about a possible shut down of the track..

    But no, it is about more lives lost at a less than stellar facility. Yes, I will jingle for the VICTIMs of Charles Town… but not for the track itself.

    And I don’t think they should take the video down… why? To hide what happened? To keep people from being outraged that lives, horse and human are being put at risk? Sorry, but I think there should be outrage. Thats great that “Charles Town is not the meat grinder it used to be” and that they don’t have “break downs every night” any more. Maybe with some additional outrage they can improve even more. Or think twice before running horses in poor conditions on a “sealed” track.

    I think an incident like this, and given the record of this track, deserve some back lash.

    Found the note under the YouTube video of the race interesting:

    Charles Town Racetrack Feb 29th 2012, Race 8. All the horses went down in the race except one, #3 Miss Fifty. Unbelievably, the stewards refused to declare the race a no contest. All win/place/show money placed by bettors on all the other horses (except #3) was lost.
    Horses and greed are a terrible mix.



  4. #24
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Saratoga
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    "Found the note under the YouTube video of the race interesting:

    Quote:
    Charles Town Racetrack Feb 29th 2012, Race 8. All the horses went down in the race except one, #3 Miss Fifty. Unbelievably, the stewards refused to declare the race a no contest. All win/place/show money placed by bettors on all the other horses (except #3) was lost.
    Horses and greed are a terrible mix."
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________
    That it wasn't declared a no contest has nothing to do with greed as the owner of the horse that did finish should be entitled to his share of the purse. The bettors that bet on the horse that finished should also be entitled to cash in their winning tickets.

    Somewhat the same thing happened at Aqueduct on 3/4/09 with a 5 horse spill and that race was also not declared a no contest.


    If a gate failure or other racetrack related occurrence caused an accident or failure to finish,then the track may call a no contest. There are rules they must follow as to when they can and/or cannot call a race no contest.



  5. #25
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    I admit, I am not up on track rules... some would say poor footing, poor track conditions would be a "racetrack related occurrence" but obviously it is not under the rule books.

    But I am also going to admit, I just don't like racing as a whole. I find that all too often profits and horse welfare end up mutally exclusive.

    But I am also going to admit, I just don't like racing as a whole. I find that all too often profits and horse welfare end up mutually exclusive. (and yes yes other sports are bad, I agree, I stick with the same principle, when you have big prize money etc… welfare of the horse doesn’t always maintain top priority).



  6. #26
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    Mar. 6, 2009
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    Default JINGLES FOR THE HORSES AND JOCKEYS ```

    JINGLES FOR THE HORSES AND JOCKEYS ````
    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  7. #27
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post

    But I am also going to admit, I just don't like racing as a whole. I find that all too often profits and horse welfare end up mutually exclusive. (and yes yes other sports are bad, I agree, I stick with the same principle, when you have big prize money etc… welfare of the horse doesn’t always maintain top priority).
    Horses do not make money if you do not make their welfare the top priority in your stable.

    A trainer can choose to not run over an off track. The gate getting stuck across the track where the horses had to pull up, was a reason I have seen a no contest declared.



  8. #28
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    So all the trainers ran their horses in this slop on a track known for breakdowns because it was in the best interest of their horses wellfare? Not because there was money to be lost or made?



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    So all the trainers ran their horses in this slop on a track known for breakdowns because it was in the best interest of their horses wellfare? Not because there was money to be lost or made?
    You run your horse because if you scratch you lose your date and it could take weeks to draw back in, or have the race go. You hope that the track makes the right call in running after checking the surface. Often, in bad conditions, the jocks will band together and refuse to tide. Given that it was the 8th, I would say conditions gradually deteriorated and unfortunately this was realized too late.
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    So all the trainers ran their horses in this slop on a track known for breakdowns because it was in the best interest of their horses wellfare? Not because there was money to be lost or made?
    Thousands of races have been run over sloppy and/or sealed tracks without incident. You are reading a bit too much into the limited information you have received about racing.



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustbreeches View Post
    You run your horse because if you scratch you lose your date and it could take weeks to draw back in, or have the race go. You hope that the track makes the right call in running after checking the surface. Often, in bad conditions, the jocks will band together and refuse to tide. Given that it was the 8th, I would say conditions gradually deteriorated and unfortunately this was realized too late.
    or it was a bad step/unknown previous injury. It is hard to tell what happened based on the information out there so far.



  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post

    But I am also going to admit, I just don't like racing as a whole. I find that all too often profits and horse welfare end up mutally exclusive.
    I find it interesting that you event yet think so poorly of racing and racehorse trainers.

    Appsolute says:
    "I have prior experience as a full working student in a large eventing barn, rode to prelim myself, and groomed for CCI** (back when it was long format). I am also a former pony clubber, who made it to the B prep level."

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=264705



  13. #33
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    Feb. 24, 2010
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    According to Thoroughbred Times a horse named Wild Mambo was eased in the 5th and vanned off. In the race just before the spill a horse named Disclosure broke down and was vanned off and he broke down at around the same spot as Sharp Beauty. I do not know whether these two horses are going to be OK or not. I think the breakdown in the previous race should have convinced them to cancel racing. Just because horses do not break down every time a track is sloppy does not mean it is safe. Changing a horses shoes prior to the race to queens plates or mud caulks can give the horse increased traction. A sloppy or muddy track is slippery and some horses cannot handle it. Fatal and non fatal breakdowns are most frequent on sloppy or muddy tracks. In the interests of safety it would be best if all races were canceled when there is mud,snow or ice on the track. I do not think much of any trainer who runs a horse on a slippery track especially if he knows the horse cannot handle it. It is better to wait weeks than to have a dead or lame horse.



  14. #34
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifesabreeze View Post
    Thousands of races have been run over sloppy and/or sealed tracks without incident.
    True, but horses are statistically more likely to breakdown on a sloppy or sealed surface, as the JC's own EID studies have shown.
    Combining a sloppy track, with a race over the insanely short distance of 4 1/2f (in other words insanely fast speed), and on a 6f bullring.... seems to me like you are setting yourself up for a perfect storm of ingredients.



  15. #35
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    I don't see how Queen's plates would help in the slop, they are as plain as shoes come. Mud caulks aren't legal anywhere as far as I know but definitely not at CT.



  16. #36
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pristine View Post
    According to Thoroughbred Times a horse named Wild Mambo was eased in the 5th and vanned off. In the race just before the spill a horse named Disclosure broke down and was vanned off and he broke down at around the same spot as Sharp Beauty. I do not know whether these two horses are going to be OK or not. I think the breakdown in the previous race should have convinced them to cancel racing. Just because horses do not break down every time a track is sloppy does not mean it is safe. Changing a horses shoes prior to the race to queens plates or mud caulks can give the horse increased traction. A sloppy or muddy track is slippery and some horses cannot handle it. Fatal and non fatal breakdowns are most frequent on sloppy or muddy tracks. In the interests of safety it would be best if all races were canceled when there is mud,snow or ice on the track. I do not think much of any trainer who runs a horse on a slippery track especially if he knows the horse cannot handle it. It is better to wait weeks than to have a dead or lame horse.
    Having ridden many a race over a nasty track, I agree that tracks should be quicker to shut down racing when it appears unsafe. Since I do not know the horse that went down, I will not presume to know what caused the fall.

    I am also not a fan of CT as I shipped in a few times during the 80's so know what some of these posters are referring to.

    But I will defend racing in general against someone who posts that they dislike racing and think race trainers do not care about the welfare of their horses.



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
    True, but horses are statistically more likely to breakdown on a sloppy or sealed surface, as the JC's own EID studies have shown.
    Combining a sloppy track, with a race over the insanely short distance of 4 1/2f (in other words insanely fast speed), and on a 6f bullring.... seems to me like you are setting yourself up for a perfect storm of ingredients.
    Very true and I agree wholeheartedly.



  18. #38
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    Feb. 10, 2009
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    I watch a lot of the racing channel as a keen armchair fan. Was sadden to see the spill and pile-up with only 1 horse finishing. Jingles to all those lovely steeds and brave riders.

    Wake up call for CT (among others).

    Honestly, if a viewer can see the alarming degree of slop and mayhem why on earth wouldn't they cancel the card or at least the remainder.

    I keep my pasture-puff horses off their turn-out in that condition and slop to save ligament injuries!

    Sigh.



  19. #39
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    The remainder of the card was cancelled.



  20. #40
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    But I will defend racing in general against someone who posts that they dislike racing and think race trainers do not care about the welfare of their horses.
    Your comments are really appreciated, LAB.

    For the life of me I don't understand what it is that drives people to comment how much they hate racing ... on a racing forum.

    FWIW I've visited CT regularly since the mid-80s and back then it was a serious dump, the absolute bottom of the barrel on every front - horses, trainers, purses, infrastructure/facilities.

    It's come a long way since then and while it's never going to be top tier I'm sorry to hear so many who've worked horses there in the last 5 - 10 years express concerns about the track itself when it's sloppy.

    ETA: wishing for a full and speedy recovery for both people and horses injured in what sounds like a really horrific accident.
    Last edited by Flashy Gray VA; Mar. 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM.



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