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  1. #1
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    Default Poprocks needed?

    I dont want to buy 175 dollar pop rocks if they arent going to help but the trainer working with gelding thinks he may have ulcers.

    He never leaves any scrape of food in his feedpan or stall. He inhales it AAMOF.

    He is on TC? Sr feed--I dont know how much. He is slightly hard keeper but looks better now than he has since I got him. His wait is about where he needs to be.

    He is on homegrown grass hay--maybe 15-20 lbs/day. Before he got alphalfa cubes/pellets + timothy hay for probably 9 months.

    I dont girth him all at once-in stages he is fine. He will blow up his belly if you try to tightn all at once.

    He is only a slight bit nervous--not in stall at all except when putting on a closed front blanket. When riding outside is fine. In an indoor/outdoor ring can be nervous. Right now turnout is indoors for not long enough. I dont own the barn.

    He does sometimes really move off/nose leg on him. Sometimes he doesnt move off leg at all.

    I know Ill get lots of advise. Would you spend $$ for pop rocks? Get free sample & see?
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  2. #2
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    I would want a fairly comprehensive explanation of why the trainer thinks the horse has ulcers, and if it's a soft guess I might try rantidine for 7-10 days before going the omeprazole route.
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  3. #3
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    Nervous in indoor ring.

    Ubersentive to leg pressure sometimes. Not others.

    What abt usingfree trial of Omeprazole?
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  4. #4
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    Ditto DW on the ranitidine - cheap cheap. 3mg/lb for 7 days or so and see if symptoms subside.

    Being nervous only in certain situations is a training deal - ulcers aren't that particular LOL
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  5. #5
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    I agree that there are too few "symptoms" to be blaming ulcers here. You can try the Ranitidine, but it seems more like a training/exposure issue.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  6. #6
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    I would just scope if you have reason to believe he may have ulcers. My gelding is fat and vacuums hay, he's also good outside but nervous and spooky inside and has always been a bit girthy. My vet had me try giving him prilosec OTC for 8 days and I noticed no difference and it cost more then the pop rocks. When we finally scoped him we found ulcers and he's now on Gastrogard and finally starting to feel a bit better. My point is you can scope for around 350 and actually know what you are dealing with so why bother trying things to see if it helps? If his schedule has recently changed, he's indoors more and in training he is probably stressed and most likely has ulcers, but you might as well check and know for sure before you start spending money on trial and error. Good luck!



  7. #7
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    Generally speaking, and I use empirical treatments quite a bit, if the test to make a diagnosis costs more than the treatment, I'd go with the treatment. A full 30 day course of pop rocks, even at 3 packets a day, would cost less than the scope and be much less stressful on the horse.

    But if a horse is showing definite symptoms and one notices NO CHANGE in the symptoms with a course of empirical therapy, one can save their money, skip the full course AND the endoscopy. And go looking elsewhere.

    I'm all for a definitive diagnosis, but sometimes an empirical trial is the way to go, especially if you have distinct, new symptoms that you are looking to remedy.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyleed View Post
    I would just scope if you have reason to believe he may have ulcers. My gelding is fat and vacuums hay, he's also good outside but nervous and spooky inside and has always been a bit girthy. My vet had me try giving him prilosec OTC for 8 days and I noticed no difference and it cost more then the pop rocks. When we finally scoped him we found ulcers and he's now on Gastrogard and finally starting to feel a bit better. My point is you can scope for around 350 and actually know what you are dealing with so why bother trying things to see if it helps? If his schedule has recently changed, he's indoors more and in training he is probably stressed and most likely has ulcers, but you might as well check and know for sure before you start spending money on trial and error. Good luck!
    I normally would agree with you, because I just spent quite a bit of money on trial nad error with my mare who I suspected had ulcers, used GastroGard for 8 days with no obvious improvement, spent money on other things, ended up being ulcers when I finally got her scoped. If I had of just scoped when I suspected, I would've saved hundreds of dollars.

    "Generally speaking, and I use empirical treatments quite a bit, if the test to make a diagnosis costs more than the treatment, I'd go with the treatment. A full 30 day course of pop rocks, even at 3 packets a day, would cost less than the scope and be much less stressful on the horse."

    In the case of pop rocks, a 30 day treatment would essentially cost you $175. If you suspect ulcers here, do the 30 days since it will be cheaper than even a scope. My scope for my mare was a little over $400 with everything including the office visit. In the case where I trial-and-errored with my mare, I only had GastroGard at the time, no pop rocks, so it was quite expensive ot trial and error. WIth the pop rocks being so affordable, I woudl do 30 days of those to see if you notice a change. Keep in mind that some horses take longer to "change" than others...my mare was confirmed grade 4/4 ulcers, and didn't start acting "more normal" until almost 28 days on GastroGard, and still soemtimes she is a little off. I am using 1 pop rock packet per day right now as a preventative, until summer when she is on grass 24/7.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  9. #9
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    If I had pop rocks at my disposal when I first suspected, I would've gone a round of those instead of scoping, but I did't have them, so we had to figure out what we were dealing with. Which did end up being ulcers.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  10. #10
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    Vet actually said treat before scope. For the reason DW said.

    Ranitine wont get shipped from SP without a scrip. Vet has been out for spring shots already and my friend cant just give me one since shes leaving. Is there other place I can check that doesnt need one?

    The trainer is working thru issues-and their were many. Seeing how he flashbacks makes me think if he was that torn up earlier he may have them now.

    WOuld the free trial on Omep be enough to see results or do you need longer?
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  11. #11
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    The trial would be enough for a "test" but if you get favorable results and want to continue treatment there will be a gap in treatment of a couple of weeks while you wait for the rest to come which may mean that you need more to treat enough days in succession. I would buy the whole 100 sachets and if it doesn't help try to quietly resell to someone.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    Ranitine wont get shipped from SP without a scrip.
    Sam's/Costco/Target/Walmart/Walgreens/CVS they all have a generic Zantac, some label they put on their version of ranitidine. No Rx needed

    I don't understand why SP won't ship it without a scrip - it's very much an OTC drug. Maybe their product is a higher dosage than what you can buy OTC?
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  13. #13
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    http://www.smartpakequine.com/raniti...x?cm_vc=Search

    Didnt know it was Zantac since i never use the stuff

    How much for 1000 lb horse?
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  14. #14
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    I think it's 7 mg/kg, every 8 hours. So for a 1000 pound horse, about 3100 mg every 8 hours, round it off to 3 grams and call it good, that would be 20 of the 150mg tablets 3 times a day.

    190 tablets for 11 bucks on Costco's website, so not DIRT cheap considering how many you need (and assuming my math is OK), but for a short empirical trial it's quick, easy, and readily available. Maybe someone has a source that's even cheaper.

    Disclaimer: profound math impairment.
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  15. #15
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    Default

    I just got my 7-day (well, technically 6+2/3 days) trial of BPR in and thought about the same thing Laurierace mentioned re ability to complete the 28-consecutive day treatment with the lapse while waiting for the additional 80 packets to get here (if I see a positive result with the BPR and want to continue on with them).

    With the remaining 80 packets you would be able to treat 3 packets per day for 26 days + 2 packets on the 27th day. I just emailed Omeprazole Direct to find out if it's possible to order an additional 4 packets to complete the 28 days vs. 26+2/3 days. Will update everyone on what I hear.

    I guess if all else fails, treating for 26+2/3 days + one tube of ulcergard on the 28th day would get you close enough to the full 28 days?

    And for full disclosure, this route is being chosen for a horse with symptoms most likely not associated with ulcers, but I wanted to see if there is any difference just in case. If I was more sure that ulcers were the culprit I can see where ordering the full 100 packets up front would be benefitial if one wanted to treat sooner than later.
    "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse..." ~Revelation 19:11



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    http://www.smartpakequine.com/raniti...x?cm_vc=Search

    Didnt know it was Zantac since i never use the stuff
    I don't know why the require an Rx for the 150mg tabs, but could see them requiring one for the 300mg tabs - can't get that high in the drugstores, not that I've ever seen

    How much for 1000 lb horse?
    Already gave it above - 3mg/lb. So, 1000lb = 3000mg (or 20 of the 150mg tabs) every time you feed it, which should be every 8 hours for this trial course
    ______________________________
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  17. #17
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    For what its worth...the pop rocks are very small, like the size of cupcake sprinkles, and my VERY PICKY mare ate them without even noticing they were there when I sprinkled them on top of her alfalfa cubes and TC Senior. THe packets are actually smaller than they look on the website, a packet doesn't even fill a tablespoon of volume.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  18. #18
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    I don't know why the require an Rx for the 150mg tabs
    Because that is the prescription strength. For the same reason you can't buy 800 mg ibuprofen tablets over the counter but you can buy 10,000 of the 200mg size if you want.

    I'm not saying it's logical, but them's the rules. However, it does appear that you CAN buy the 150mg size some places, like Sam's Club.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    I would buy the whole 100 sachets and if it doesn't help try to quietly resell to someone.
    No script requied, so I don't think you would need to be quiet about it...unless there is something against selling a non-script medication? I'm not sure.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Because that is the prescription strength. For the same reason you can't buy 800 mg ibuprofen tablets over the counter but you can buy 10,000 of the 200mg size if you want.

    I'm not saying it's logical, but them's the rules. However, it does appear that you CAN buy the 150mg size some places, like Sam's Club.
    You can buy 150mg sizes at Target and Walmart too, right OTC

    Walmart right now has 65c 150mg tabs for $4

    But yes, since SP offers the 300mg size, I can see why that requires an Rx
    ______________________________
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