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  1. #1
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    Default Bots in Manure after deworming

    Raising my hand in shame, since if found those ugly red stomach bot things in the manure after doing Quest Plus.

    I thought my deworming protocol was okay. But I admit last year I stopped scrapping the bots off their legs, as I had read that deworming will kill whatever they injest anway. WRONG! Oh so wrong. And admittedly it was a really, really bad bot year.

    Okay deworming experts, how do you suggest to proceed & when?

    I am thinking 5 days of liquid Safeguard? Or can I just follow up sooner than intended with a dose of Ivermectin? Regular Quest & when?

    I am fully horrified, & really cheesed that my poor gang, or at least one, had bots that bad. Okay, I only found two bots in manure. And yes, I am a chronic manure inspector! But two, is two too many.

    JB, you reading this?

    TIA
    Last edited by ThisTooShallPass; Feb. 24, 2012 at 09:49 PM. Reason: spelling as always
    "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    Default

    I muck out my paddocks completely 1-2 times a day and its been years since I have found any bots in their manure after worming. Or any other worms for that matter

    One mare I got in I made the mistake of giving a full dose of Ivermectin to and the next day and for the next 4-5 days after that she shedded out hundreds or maybe thousands of them. Im really not kidding. I thought I killed her - she got really colicky, went right off her feed and her entire paddock was a sea of red bots in her manure piles for days. Each pile would have 10-15-20 in there. It was absolutely disgusting that anyone let her get to that stage ...

    She did recover thank goodness and subsequent wormings had minimal to none in there

    I'd go Ivermectin personally but interested to hear what others might say



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
    Raising my hand in shame, since if found those ugly red stomach bot things in the manure after doing Quest Plus.
    It means the QP worked

    Depending on when you did the Fall deworming, you may not have timed it (or been able to) such that botflies were gone. I can tell you right now, as of 2 weeks ago I was once again scraping bot eggs off legs

    I thought my deworming protocol was okay. But I admit last year I stopped scrapping the bots off their legs, as I had read that deworming will kill whatever they injest anway. WRONG! Oh so wrong. And admittedly it was a really, really bad bot year.
    Deworming with iver/moxidectin WILL kill whatever bots are there to be killed. But know too that most chemicals have a definitive stage of the parasite that they kill - sometimes the adult (ivermectin and strongyles), sometimes the larval (ivermectin and bots), etc. So, ivermectin won't kill juvenile strongles, for example, and even when you deworm, there may well be some juvies there to mature and be seen, via their eggs, at a subsequent FEC

    Bots dot take several months to mature to a harmful stage, so the twice yearly killing is pretty reasonable for most horses.

    Okay deworming experts, how do you suggest to proceed & when?

    I am thinking 5 days of liquid Safeguard? Or can I just follow up sooner than intended with a dose of Ivermectin? Regular Quest & when?
    Absolutely nothing for at least 12 weeks since you just used QP. It worked - that's what you're seeing

    FWIW - the "power pack" won't kill bots; the moxidectin you just used killed most of the encysted strongyles (if there were any) the pp targets; the pp won't be very effective against any adult strongyles even if they did somehow manage to survive the moxidectin (hasn't happened to date).

    I am fully horrified, & really cheesed that my poor gang, or at least one, had bots that bad. Okay, I only found two bots in manure. And yes, I am a chronic manure inspector! But two, is two too many.

    JB, you reading this?

    TIA
    Ok crap, you were testing to see if I was reading???

    I just dewormed with QP. It's a little early by my normal schedule, but as per above there are FRIGGIN' BOT EGGS on my horses' legs right now!! And my pasture never really "died" this year, in part due to a broad-spectrum light rye drilling last Fall (mixed with fescue), so the horses seem to have been nibbling grass more than most Winters (read: likely sooner/more often exposure to tapes)

    There may well be bot larva in their crap right now but I'm not going to lose sleep over it - QP done kilt 'em all
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueColours View Post
    I'd go Ivermectin personally but interested to hear what others might say

    Ivermectin does nothing for bots (or strongyles, or many other things) that moxidectin doesn't do.

    Additionally, moxidectin is powerful enough that you would never, unless perhaps under strict veterinary supervision and even then I can't imagine a valid scenario, want to use ivermectin this soon after using moxidectin

    Nothing for 12 weeks.

    If the OP is just DYING to see what's going on, a FEC could be done 10 days post deworming to see what's what in terms of strongyles (and hopefully NO ascarids/roundworms), but it's probably pretty useless.

    The next step would be a FEC 16 weeks after the moxidectin. that's about mid-end of June. It's possible it will be high enough (> 200), but most likely will still be low or clean.

    If the latter, another FEC around the end of Sept, and if still clean, use Equimax after a good freeze.

    If either of those are >200, then use plain ivermectin and do another FEC 12 weeks later.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  5. #5
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Thanks JB, I knew I could count on you! You are the definitive go to person for this subject.

    Thank you!
    "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."



  6. #6
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    Default

    ..thought there was a high risk of a reaction when using moxidectin/ praziquantel?



  7. #7
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    Thanks JB - just learned something as well ...



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sansena View Post
    ..thought there was a high risk of a reaction when using moxidectin/ praziquantel?
    I guess it depends what you mean by "high risk"

    Can you dose moxidectin at as high a dose as ivermectin? Absolutely not. Mox has a lower safety margin then ivermectin.

    But dose an 1100lb horse with a 1250lb tube? No, unless the horse has a serious sensitivity to mox, that won't kill the horse, or even make him sick

    Now, if you're thinking about the early day so moxidectin, there were a greater number of issues, but it was mainly for 2 reasons:
    - the locking mechanism of the tube wasn't very good, and people were ending up pushing way past the dosage they set, so ponies, for example, were getting 1250lb doses.
    - people were jumping on using mox even for horses with unknown or known high parasite loads. Mox is very, very effective, so they were causing a massive die-off and horses were getting impaction colics.

    The locking mechanism isn't much of an issue now (I just used a 200lb dose off one tube and had remotely no issues with it slipping), and people have become more educated on its use in terms of dosing and timing.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
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    Okay, next question:

    I feel I need to do the neck threadworm course of action on one guy. When would it be safe to proceed with this? 12 weeks out still?

    I know, I know, what part of 12 weeks before doing anything else did I not understand? Right?

    That is fine if so, I simply need guidance.

    TIA again JB.
    "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."



  10. #10
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    Yes, having just done Quest, you need to wait 12 weeks before you try the DD Equimax

    I suppose if you were really under the gun, you could go 11, maybe 10, but I'd just wait 12 if at all possible. I just don't know at what point the moxidectin is "diluted" enough to be safe to add another chemical.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



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