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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2008
    Posts
    265

    Default Farrier's advice wanted regarding this device

    I have a 16.3 TB; long legged and short backed. Pulls off his fronts constantly. He too has low heel/long toe situation. He didn't come to me that way but has gradually acquired this problem because I believe my farrier is trying to keep the front shoes on him.
    Have any one here fitted or used "Shoe Secure"?. I don't know how to attach a link to the website but it looks like it would work better than any type of bell boot out there; which for us none of those really work either. Please HELP!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam, NY
    Posts
    309

    Default

    I'd look for a new farrier just because of the statement you made that the horse didn't come long toe/low heel, but now he is.
    IF YOU THINK YOUR BRAIN IS NOT WORTH PROTECTING WITH A HELMET, YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT!

    Damrock Farm



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    Looking at the device, it seems it would rub the heck out of the horse's heel bulbs, especially if worn in a wet field / sand arena, etc.... How do you keep dirt from getting between the Shoe Secure and the foot???

    Your farrier is not doing you any favors by creating a long toe low heel.

    Did I read that correctly? He actually made the horse's feet into a LTLH configuration to try and keep shoes on?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    12,976

    Default

    http://www.shoesecure.com/

    That item?


    It sure looks like more of a trouble maker than a problem solver to me.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
    Posts
    3,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cayusepapoose View Post
    I have a 16.3 TB; long legged and short backed. Pulls off his fronts constantly.
    That conformation does not, in and of itself, lead to shoe pulling. What does his underline look like?
    He too has low heel/long toe situation.
    And there in lies the root of the problem. What do his back feet look like.
    He didn't come to me that way but has gradually acquired this problem because I believe my farrier is trying to keep the front shoes on him.
    According to your farrier, how does creating a LTLH condition, help with keeping the front shoes on?
    Have any one here fitted or used "Shoe Secure"?. I don't know how to attach a link to the website but it looks like it would work better than any type of bell boot out there; which for us none of those really work either. Please HELP!
    Never used that product but I can see some problems with using it. Rubs, moisture retention, creation of an environment that pathogens prefer, etc.

    Perhaps if we could see some photos of the hooves in their current condition and state of shoeing, we'd have a better idea of what advice to offer. Regardless, at a minimum, get his toes or at least his breakover backed up and use a spooned heel shoe with side clips and fewer, lighter, nails (2/branch should suffice).

    And if your farrier can't [rationally] explain why s/he is doing what s/he is doing then find someone who can.



  6. #6

    Default experience with 'shoesecure'

    My horse has been using the same pair of shoesecures when turned out in the field for the last 2 1/2 years. There has been no issues with rubbing as there's no movement between the shoesecure and the bulbs. I use them with overreach boots and this stops any muck going down the down the back - plus the overreach boots don't rub as their held off the pastern. I've had no incidence of infections or skin breakdown. My horse is short coupled, big moving and very sharp. He requires turn out every day to keep him sane and in the whole time since I've been using the shoesecures I've not lost a single shoe, compared to one a week previously . I know a number of horsey friends who have used them to protect their horses feet after injury from traumatic shoe loss and their feet have grown and repaired, as they've managed to keep their shoes on. It's important to make sure they're well fitted by a qualified farrier- I'm lucky as mine are Scotsmen who were previous world and reserve champions at Calgary.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    36,091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cayusepapoose View Post
    He too has low heel/long toe situation. He didn't come to me that way but has gradually acquired this problem because I believe my farrier is trying to keep the front shoes on him.
    Not only does the farrier's logic make no sense, he is degrading the hoof form by doing this.

    Even if your belief is wrong, even if the farrier isn't causing the LTLH in an effort to get shoes to stay on, he's obviously allowing this imbalance to occur, can't see it's occuring, doesn't want to or know how to fix it.

    New farrier, not a new gadget, sorry.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
    Location
    Stoystown, PA
    Posts
    1,971

    Default

    I agree... you need a new farrier.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    5,532

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    New farrier, not a new gadget, sorry.
    ^^^THIS
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Not only does the farrier's logic make no sense, he is degrading the hoof form by doing this.

    Even if your belief is wrong, even if the farrier isn't causing the LTLH in an effort to get shoes to stay on, he's obviously allowing this imbalance to occur, can't see it's occuring, doesn't want to or know how to fix it.

    New farrier, not a new gadget, sorry.
    Ditto!!!

    Farriers who permit LTLH trim/reset after trim/rest are lazy. Sorry, there's no nice way to put it.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2007
    Location
    Port Charlotte, FL
    Posts
    3,447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    Ditto!!!

    Farriers who permit LTLH trim/reset after trim/rest are lazy. Sorry, there's no nice way to put it.
    They don't know any better. The church of fit the shoe to the toe and "don't trim the heels" is very large and well connected politically.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bloomer View Post
    They don't know any better. The church of fit the shoe to the toe and "don't trim the heels" is very large and well connected politically.
    OY!!!! That explains sooooo much!!!

    Head * Desk
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2011
    Posts
    1,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cayusepapoose View Post
    I have a 16.3 TB; long legged and short backed. Pulls off his fronts constantly. He too has low heel/long toe situation. He didn't come to me that way but has gradually acquired this problem because I believe my farrier is trying to keep the front shoes on him.
    Have any one here fitted or used "Shoe Secure"?. I don't know how to attach a link to the website but it looks like it would work better than any type of bell boot out there; which for us none of those really work either. Please HELP!
    I donot understand. Even if the horse tends to grow a long toe and be low heeled the job of the farrier is to manage that with every trim and/or reset.....not perpetuate it or even enhance it. So why does he need long toes and low heel to keep the front shoes on?


    I have a little arab that is very short backed but long legs. He has little heel. When barefoot I am always working with the rasp to keep toe length in check. Gratefully what heel he does have holds well. It does not crush or roll under. When shod that means every 5-6wks I haul him back to the farrier for resets to keep those toes in check. No way can he go 8 wks. His backs have to be dubbed or he will over reach. We manage him just fine despite his shorty back conformation. Winters with deep wet snow and spring torrential rain just add to the fun of it all. But we get the job done.

    Hubby's horse tends to crush his heels and also have long toe. Managed with trims and/or shoeing. I also use Dumor Hoof supp on him. He also gets reset every 5-6wks. He is an incrediable amount of work out of shoes so this winter I am thinking snow pads for sure.

    My big quarter has big honking flat feet with shelly hoof wall. Great for deep sand and snow drifts....not so great if your a 1400lb quarter horse. A constant battle with the flare so that he does not bust up. And a constant battle with not over finishing the hoof wall and making those thin walls even thinner. He also get Dumor hoof and if hoof integrity around the nails seems to be failing I am on the phone with the farrier....do not even look at the calendar and think how many wks has it been. Shoer knows to work him in ASAP. And I tip the man generously for the service.

    I have never used such a product as Shoe Secure. Manage the problem at hand. This looks an excuse to keep the status quo....which sounds like it is not working.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    http://www.shoesecure.com/

    That item?


    It sure looks like more of a trouble maker than a problem solver to me.
    I am sorry , but where have all the skilled farriers gone?? Why do people need this crazy stuff to make up for a lack of skill? Find a decent farrier, they are still out there, somewhere.......



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,997

    Default

    In theory I could see this product being sort of useful for a horse that hates bell boots. Obviously it would need to be fitted well, but if a horse had an interfering issue it might help.

    But I agree that the problem is the hi/low situation, and you could wrap his whole leg up in bubble wrap and maybe he won't lose as many shoes, but he still has the hi/low problem.

    My TB mare is hi/low. Not much to do but regular trimming to correct it, whether the horse is in shoes or not. My mare wears front shoes, and correcting this imbalance (they were terrible when I got her) has helped her keep her shoes much better. (And we started using bell boots so she didn't pull them because she was so out of balance, but have not needed to use them in a couple of years).



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
    Posts
    15,232

    Default

    Sometimes you have to look above the hoof to explain the imbalance.

    this goes for farriers and barefooters.

    I know. I know. Shocking.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
    Location
    Stoystown, PA
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    1,971

    Default

    Yes LMH so shocking!

    As an example... a horse with long pasterns is more likely going to be prone to LTLH's (insert my Boy here) because the long pasterns cause more heel pressure. On a horse with LTLH's it "appears" to someone who doesn't know any better that the horse grows all toe and no heel. In most cases this is not true. The heel is there but there's too much of it. They grow forward (because of the added pressure) instead of down, and then eventually fold under or get crushed. This type of conformation needs to be trimmed/shod in a way that takes the added pressure from the heels and distributes it more evenly across the back of the foot. Shoeing the horse too short (as it sounds in the OP's case) only adds to the pressure on the heels and makes things worse. You HAVE take heel from these cases or they will not ever be able to grow the way they need to.

    It's the farriers J.O.B. to recognize this and trim/shoe the horse accordingly. Why is this so freaking hard to understand??? I don't get it. I'm not a farrier and I understand it. If I could I would go to school and learn to be a farrier JUST to shoe my horse. Yes, if I had the money and time I would be that anal about his feet. Sorry... I've gone through this with 3 farriers now and when I see another thread about this very common issue it frustrates me. I think I may have FINALLY found the one that's going to manage him properly now (crossing my fingers and praying).

    OP please get a new and hopefully competent farrier before your horse is lame.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
    Location
    Center of the Universe
    Posts
    7,358

    Default

    so why are bell boots so popular if any skilled farrier can prevent a horse from pulling off the front shoes?



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2010
    Posts
    198

    Default

    Because "skilled" farriers are few and far between anymore. I went through a passel of crap farriers before I found my guy and I've told him he can never get hurt or retire. :-)



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    so why are bell boots so popular if any skilled farrier can prevent a horse from pulling off the front shoes?
    Nobody said a skilled farrier can prevent a horse from once in a while pulling off a shoe. My horse has low heel/high heel. We keep the toe short and shoe set back for support. We shoe every 5 weeks....my horse has a huge over reach. He rarely looses a shoe <twice since last fall and it was the low heeled foot <thats when it has been very muddy outside>. I ride in no turn bell boots and he gets turned out in them too, as a extra precaution. I have a VERY good farrier.....remember "no foot, no horse"

    Several years ago my very sound mare who was shod the same way was moved to a barn where the farrier shod her like yours....he heels got so sore she was unsound til they grew out and she was shod correctly.
    PS: he doesn't always wear bells...see my 3rd photo in webshots. and thats not even a good over reach picture

    Long story short.....you need a new, better, farrier!
    Last edited by Parrotnutz; Jun. 21, 2012 at 01:06 PM. Reason: spelling
    Adriane
    Happily retired but used to be:
    www.ParrotNutz.com



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