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  1. #1
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    Jan. 7, 2005
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    Default What is a fair Wage?

    If you were asked to haul 2 horses 14 hours by yourself, how much would you expect to get paid for said job?
    -Chelsie
    "Hell yes I can ride. I was riding when I fell off!"



  2. #2
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    Default

    I have a friend who hauls as a side job, and she charges $1.50/mile.



  3. #3
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    Jan. 13, 2011
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    A rate per mile will NOT work. Take your TOTAL ROUND TRIP miles and calculate your fuel cost....add any applicable tolls...a hotel for the night....food....wear and tear on your truck and trailer and now add an hourly rate for yourself for the 14 hours of driving.

    For the next 14 hours keep your fingers crossed that nothing happens...an accident, doesnt matter if its your fault or not.....you are partaking in ILLEGAL INTERSTATE COMMERCE and when the horse owner SUES you, you will be spending the rest of your life living in a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere.....As will RunNjump86's friend!!!

    Don't say you were not warned.....



  4. #4
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    Nov. 8, 2007
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    Default

    There is nothing illegal at all about this.

    I'd charge expenses plus 15% profit on expenses plus hourly pay of $20/hr.

    Make sure you are insured.

    Actually, now that I think of it, I'd charge an even $1000. I don't think 280 + expenses is enough.



  5. #5
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    Dec. 12, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    There is nothing illegal at all about this.
    It IS illegal....accepting payment means that you are now a commercial entity...and you will need to have the proper insurance, the proper paperwork, and the proper plates on your truck.

    Not that people don't do it all the time. But it's not legal unless OP already has a commercial operation with the insurance to haul client horses.



  6. #6
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    Oct. 19, 2006
    Location
    Minnesota
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    Default

    And commercial drivers need certain equipment in their vehicles - tool box, flares, an orange vest (I'm trying to remember what my husband has in his truck - it's a regular truck but he sometimes hauls a dump trailer with his company logo on it which makes him a commercial driver). He also needed to pass a physical and have a medical card on him.



  7. #7
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    Default

    You don't need a commercial license to transport your or anybody else's horses unless the total weight is over 26,000 pounds.

    Over 10,000 pounds and hauling interstate, you do need to follow DOT rules about safety equipment (cones, flares, fire extinguishers) and log books. .

    There is a farm exemption for trips under 100 miles.

    Note that the rules requiring a DOT sticker may be confusing to some in law enforcement. Generally, hobby haulers (think boat and car racers who tow their equipment to amateur races) are exempt from the DOT regulations about log books and physical exams. Also, just because you get compensation for hauling does not necessarily mean you are commercial. If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules.

    In any case, the worse that will happen to you is that you might get a ticket and have to go to court to argue your case. No judge will fine you so much as to make you live under a bridge.

    However, if you did have an accident that was your fault and you don't have insurance, all bets are off.
    Last edited by BabyGreen; Feb. 24, 2012 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Additional info



  8. #8
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    Nov. 4, 2003
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    Sanger, TX, USA
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    Default

    Check your insurance...most consider it commercial activity other than reimbursement for expenses, ie. fuel, tolls, etc.
    Julie
    www.centaurfencing.com
    Safer, Stronger, Lasts Longer!
    Godspeed BARBARO--Run fast and free!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2012
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    You don't need a commercial license to transport your or anybody else's horses unless the total weight is over 26,000 pounds.

    Over 10,000 pounds and hauling interstate, you do need to follow DOT rules about safety equipment (cones, flares, fire extinguishers) and log books. .

    There is a farm exemption for trips under 100 miles.

    Note that the rules requiring a DOT sticker may be confusing to some in law enforcement. Generally, hobby haulers (think boat and car racers who tow their equipment to amateur races) are exempt from the DOT regulations about log books and physical exams. Also, just because you get compensation for hauling does not necessarily mean you are commercial. If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules.

    In any case, the worse that will happen to you is that you might get a ticket and have to go to court to argue your case. No judge will fine you so much as to make you live under a bridge.

    However, if you did have an accident that was your fault and you don't have insurance, all bets are off.
    but aren't you supposed to declare your income?



  10. #10
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Default

    In my opinion there is some good advice and some very dangerous advice here on this thread. Suffice to say that you are asking for very big trouble for a relatively small payday. You could literally lose everything if something bad happened.



  11. #11
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    Jan. 24, 2007
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    Default

    If you are hauling for a fee you better have a commercial auto insurance policy that is based/rated on this exposure, including Care, Custody and Control coverage, or you will be in a world of hurt if something happens because your "personal auto policy" is not going to pay this claim.



  12. #12
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    Dec. 12, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    You don't need a commercial license to transport your or anybody else's horses unless the total weight is over 26,000 pounds..
    I didn't say that you needed a CDL. Needing a CDL is different than needing to follow certain rules because you're now a commercial entity.


    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    Also, just because you get compensation for hauling does not necessarily mean you are commercial. If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules.
    I'm willing to bet that your insurance agent would disagree HEARTILY with the first statement. And obviously you're exempt from the rules if you don't declare the income; you're exempt from the rules if you murder someone and cover it up well, too. It doesn't mean that it's right or something you should risk the consequences of.

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    In any case, the worse that will happen to you is that you might get a ticket and have to go to court to argue your case. No judge will fine you so much as to make you live under a bridge.
    Live under a bridge, no. But getting caught without the proper insurance or paperwork can come with some pretty hefty fines that will well outweigh whatever minimal profit you get from the trip. Nevermind the potential points on your license that will only hike your insurance rates up.

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    However, if you did have an accident that was your fault and you don't have insurance, all bets are off.
    Yeah, and you'll be royally screwed.

    OP, check out https://www.drafthorsejournal.com/in...es-and-the-law It's an older article, but it's written by an attorney who I hope did his fact checking, and it's easy to understand for the layperson.

    This paragraph is particularly important:
    If you haul horses for a fee, you are considered a commercial unit by the United States Department of Transportation and you must follow the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. This means that you must carry a log book, medical card and safety equipment such as flares, triangles, fire extinguishers, etc. and your vehicle must have the required lights, safety chains, brakes and breakaway brake. If you are commercial, you are also required to have a Federal inspection sticker, ID number and certain signage on the vehicle. You do not, however, need a CDL if your weight is 26,000 lbs. or less.

    It cannot be said enough. IF YOU ARE CHARGING, YOU ARE COMMERCIAL. You can choose not to do the proper legwork to make yourself legal, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it IS legal.



  13. #13
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    Aug. 17, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Mickey View Post
    If you were asked to haul 2 horses 14 hours by yourself, how much would you expect to get paid for said job?
    I would say no thank you to the job. Hauling alone for 14 hours is quite a bit of work.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2011
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    Default

    You are ONLY exempt from the USDOT regulations if YOU own the horse...you may then haul YOUR own poroperty. Believe me, your common auto insurance policy will NOT cover property belonging to someone else. Once they find out that you were doing a COMMERCIAL haul they will NOT cover any damage done to your vehicle or trailer.

    Like I said....Keep your fingers crossed!!!

    And thanks to those that piped in and ARE informed of the legality of hauling OTHER peoples property.



  15. #15
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    Jan. 13, 2011
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    BABY GREEN......You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong my dear. If you recieve COMPENSATION of ANY kind, this can literally mean a SANDWICH for payment, you are hauling COMMERCIALLY. EVERY judge in the country WILL agree with this. Look, I know this is done thousands of times EVERY day across the country....Just dont get caught.



  16. #16
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    Nov. 8, 2007
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    Default

    Sorry, you are wrong. That's not the wording of the law. And there is plenty of room for interpretation in that wording.

    Again, I repeat, the worst that can happen to you is a ticket. You will not be taken to jail. Nothing says you have to volunteer that you're doing this for money if you're stopped by law enforcement.

    If you comply with the DOT requirements (which are not onerous) you can haul for money. Just do a little research

    And get insurance (the cost of which should be included in the price you charge.)



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    Run away!

    It's just not worth the risk/wear and tear (on you and your truck) and all the problems that can merrily happen when dealing with horses.

    Let them hire a professional hauler...no good deed goes unpunished.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  18. #18
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    Sorry, you are wrong. That's not the wording of the law. And there is plenty of room for interpretation in that wording.

    Again, I repeat, the worst that can happen to you is a ticket. You will not be taken to jail. Nothing says you have to volunteer that you're doing this for money if you're stopped by law enforcement.

    If you comply with the DOT requirements (which are not onerous) you can haul for money. Just do a little research

    And get insurance (the cost of which should be included in the price you charge.)
    Commercial insurance will cost way more than anything she could charge for one job. The worst thing that could happen is she caused an accident that injured or killed someone and her insurance doesn't pay because she was hauling for a fee so she loses literally everything she has. A ticket would be a celebration by comparison.



  19. #19
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    There is nothing illegal at all about this.

    I'd charge expenses plus 15% profit on expenses plus hourly pay of $20/hr.

    Make sure you are insured.

    Actually, now that I think of it, I'd charge an even $1000. I don't think 280 + expenses is enough.
    Baby Green, you are in error in your assumptions. I work in a DA's office and sometimes see these cases brought in by our State Troopers. Hauling for a commercial purpose (i.e. getting compensation) is a commercial activity regardless of weight involved.

    The rules you refer to are rules that govern private vehicles or those with an exemption to the usual "hauling for commercial purposes." A farmer, for example, can haul their own production up to 150 miles without a commercial license. Things are bit murky when you start crossing state lines, but in almost 20 years I've never seen a legitimate agricultural load sanctioned. I have seen a few get hit who tried to claim the "agricultural exemption."

    Lots of people do this. It's part of the "underground economy." As long as they don't run into commercial vehicle enforcement or have a wreck they don't get noticed.

    But there's no way it's in compliance with the rules.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  20. #20
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    May. 17, 2010
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    Where humidity isn't just a word, it's a way of life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    [...] If you don't declare the income or the expenses on your taxes and if your hauling is not part of a profit-making endeavor, or you are not sponsored, you are exempt from the rules [...]
    .
    As an accountant, I have to point out that this part is illegal.
    If you make a profit, whether from hauling, training, boarding, or even selling "Flicka", you are required to report the profit on your tax return whether you are attempting to make a profit or not.
    You CAN offset that profit with expenses up to the amount of profit, but you cannot claim a loss unless you are attempting to seek a profit with that activity.

    (Not saying everyone follows these rules, but at least be smart enough to request payment by cash only -- you'd be suprised at how many people get burned by a quick check of bank deposits by an inquisitive auditor)



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