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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    36,321

    Default

    You could start with one turd ball and within a few weeks have VATS of the stuff.
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    21,070

    Default

    I figured it was gut related, just wasn't sure if it was internal or external. Sounds like I am a probiotic farmer and didn't even know it!



  3. #43

    Default

    [QUOTE=Jamie.S;6948312]Wow, 3 different people joined COTH just to make their 1 and only posts be a positive review of EquiOtic. What a coincidence.

    This is my one and only post...so far. As a long-time member of the Ultimate Dressage board (RIP), I need a new hang out. When researching EquiOtic, I found this to be the only forum discussion of the product so when I had a positive experience with it I thought I would share. I have no association with the manufacturer.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2001
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada, North America, Earth
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Sorry to jump to conclusions equistroke. Just that it has happened a few times on this board so we are highly suspicious around here lol. Welcome to COTH forums Glad you found something thats working for your horse!



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Aug. 24, 2007
    Posts
    1,110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Ok, I'll bite. How exactly does one collect "horse sourced" probiotics?
    I have no idea...



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
    Posts
    50

    Default Horse sourced answer

    Quote Originally Posted by islgrl View Post
    I have no idea...
    I asked my vet the same question. They went and got cultures from the insides of the the intestine and then sent it to a lab for selection and separation of the bacteria. Then they send the selected bacteria off to be brewed and duplicated is roughly what he said.

    The main part of this is you then get a bacteria that is unique to the species in-that the species doesn't identify it as a foreign object and try to kill it as with most bacterias.

    The reason I never posted any more was that I got so much S$%t from being excited, I quit viewing.

    Go to their FB site. And go to the Testimonial site. I think you can find the people on both to contact directly to get the straight scoop. This forum is to full of "experts" to do anything else.



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2011
    Posts
    108

    Default

    For what it's worth, my horse just had colic surgery, and the surgeon (who's expertise is in colic and ulcers) recommended it to me, as that's what they put him on, post surgery. Biosponge was also used, to clear up the runs. I had a long talk with the surgeon, about what products to use and why, to help my boy in his recovery.
    What I was told about this product is that it's been used in Europe, for some time (or something with the same ingredients), and is only now available here. I ordered some, while my horse was still in recovery, wanting it for when he came home, the next week. Well, nothing came, for so long, that I had to order the Platinum Gastric Support, for my horse. I am NOT impressed with their ordering/shipping skills, as all of a sudden my order showed up 1 and 1/2 months later, much to my surprise. This was NOT timely, they didn't call to tell me it was delayed, nothing.
    That said, I'm still trying it, as I trust the university surgeon who recommended it.
    I did some comparison research on a variety of pro/pre biotics out there, writing down the ingredients of each, then looking for studies on them. I did find that there are some studies that have showed an increase in gastric inflammation from one form of lactobacillus, so no, not all bacteria are alike.
    The one thing that the Equiotic does have going for it, which the others do not is the positive effect on of Salmonella, E. Coli & Rota Virus.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    The main part of this is you then get a bacteria that is unique to the species in-that the species doesn't identify it as a foreign object and try to kill it as with most bacterias.
    But S. boulardii is not unique to horses. It is ubiquitous. We are loaded with it and don't try to kill it. That is how commensalism works. To imply that using S. boulardii from another species is tantamount to infecting an animal with a pathogen is disingenuous on the part of an advertiser.

    Some people on COTH are pretty darn expert in microbiology and physiology. And don't have a product to sell and therefore no need to spin anything.
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
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    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    But S. boulardii is not unique to horses. It is ubiquitous. We are loaded with it and don't try to kill it. That is how commensalism works. To imply that using S. boulardii from another species is tantamount to infecting an animal with a pathogen is disingenuous on the part of an advertiser.

    Some people on COTH are pretty darn expert in microbiology and physiology. And don't have a product to sell and therefore no need to spin anything.

    They never claimed S.boulardi was from the horse. Did you read the copy or watch the video. This guy was a founding partner of Rood & Riddle. He NEVER claims to have a equine S.Boulardi. L. Reuteri when it is commensal grows and gives off Reuterin. That is their claim. Nothing more nothing less.
    Find me another product that has this single technology in the amount of CFU's and I will buy it but, judging by the people on this forum and looking at their FB site, it seems to be pretty cool. Next witch hunt please.



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2013
    Posts
    48

    Default

    "10 BILLION CFU's of Equine sourced reuteri and Saccharomyces boulardii" -that is a quote straight from the product description on the site. Makes it sound like a claim of equine S. boulardii to me??

    Also, I never said that "all bacteria are alike". Different bacterial species are DEFINITELY different. What I am saying is... bacteria of the same species... are probably the same. And yes, I do have a biological sciences degree. If our (or our horses') bodies tried to "kill" every "foreign" body that were inside it, we'd be screwed. "Horse-sourced" doesn't mean that the bacteria are made up of horse cells. It means they are the same bacteria you would find somewhere else, except someone happened to obtain those from inside a horse. Probably no harm, but I don't see the difference in a horse-sourced probiotic versus a non-horse-sourced. (Sorry if my grammar was a little off there )



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    OK. Replace "S. boulardii" with "L. reuterii" in my post above and not one bit of it changes.

    L. reuterii produces reuterin. Gee whiz. It's not like the guy invented it. That's been the case for probably a few million years. I would call it "the natural behavior of lactobacilli" and not "technology", but whatever. My summa cum laude degree in Microbiology was from a while ago.

    It may indeed be a very cool product. But "horse sourced" is just another way of packaging . . . poop . . . and jacking up the price for caring horse owners by making it seem special.
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
    Posts
    50

    Default Journal of Equine Veterinary Science

    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    OK. Replace "S. boulardii" with "L. reuterii" in my post above and not one bit of it changes.

    L. reuterii produces reuterin. Gee whiz. It's not like the guy invented it. That's been the case for probably a few million years. I would call it "the natural behavior of lactobacilli" and not "technology", but whatever. My summa cum laude degree in Microbiology was from a while ago.

    It may indeed be a very cool product. But "horse sourced" is just another way of packaging . . . poop . . . and jacking up the price for caring horse owners by making it seem special.
    The article is peer reviewed by real veterinarians not Forum members. These guys work on THOUSANDS of horses a year. This is the research that launched the product. I think I rest my case:

    http://www.equiotic.com/pdfs/equine-journal.pdf

    I am sure you are smarter than these guys. They only work in the finest Equine facilities in the world. What could they possibly know?



  13. #53
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Can you please point out the part where the paper says that this is a different organism from the one(s) found in the colons of other species? Because that is my POINT. I have a feeling the authors of the paper would be on my side of this ridiculous non-argument. A bacterium is not species-specific in the way you are thinking it is, nor in the way the product in question is being marketed.

    Here is their own conclusion: (emphasis mine)

    Results suggest that as in other species, Lactobacillus reuteri is a major contributor to the normal flora of the gastrointestinal tract of the horse.
    L. reuterii is a nice, friendly bug. It DOES NOT HAVE TO COME FROM A HORSE to be a nice friendly bug. Marketing it as "host specific" is a slick way of making a perfectly humble, ubiquitous organism seem more special than it really is. I have NO ARGUMENT against the benefits of a healthy intestinal flora, which includes this particular organism. But the whole idea that sourcing it from horses makes it "better" is just a little silly. Kind of like the equestrian markup on perfectly humble items that cost $1.99 at Target but $10 if you buy them at a tack shop.

    If this is indeed the research that launched the product, I commend the authors for their very clever idea in taking a non-revelation and turning it into an apparently very effective marketing strategy.

    I do not think this paper says what you think it says. But I'm sure that it's a nice bit of marketing and I do think it's refreshing to at least see a citation from a peer-reviewed journal. But it's sort of like citing a paper saying that research shows the incidence of dandelions is highest in the springtime on a website selling dandelion extract.
    Click here before you buy.



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2011
    Posts
    108

    Default

    I'm not taking the OP's side, per se, however the head ER surgeon, who operated on my horse at UC Davis last month, recommended it to me.
    I hardly think he would have done this, nor would UC Davis' ICU use a product that was bogus, Deltawave, so please get off your high horse. There may actually be Vets and Phds out there that know more than we do.

    New article at The Horse.com backs up the OP's claim:

    "Furr said some scientists have suggested that, to be as effective as possible, the organisms in probiotics should be host-specific so they have a greater chance at surviving in and colonizing the gastrointestinal tract."

    Article is available at: http://www.thehorse.com:80/articles/...ign=04-22-2013



  15. #55
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    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Many people do prefer to use host-specific probiotics when feasible, but that is a general feeling and NOT supported by microbiological "facts" as of yet. "Some scientists suggest" is not enough of a leg to stand on for claims of superiority to be made. Some scientists also suggest that we don't know enough to say with certainty.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...78113503001834

    No dog in the fight. Probiotics are anything but bogus in settings where host defenses are "down". (where did I say they were?) Just trying, as always, to separate science from advertising.
    Click here before you buy.



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2011
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Gotcha. I think the idiots who come on here pretending to ask about something, when, in reality are hyping their product, do more harm to their credibility and potential sales than if they'd just let their product speak for itself.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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