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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
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    Default Has anyone used EquiOtic?

    I have a horse that gets a bit of the runs. My vet does a lot of trials for clinics in Lexington, Ky and so we get peeks at new technology. He gave me this tube of probiotic and said it is a new Equine sourced bacteria. It is called Equiotic. Before I spend some bucks, does anyone have any experience with it?



  2. #2
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    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    11,454

    Default

    Has anyone used this? The only posts about it appear to be from someone who works for the company. Such as this one. Or I could be wrong.



  3. #3

    Default

    Oh, come on OP.

    You JUST posted on a worming thread, saying the studies were super impressive and your horses are already on it: Link

    Do you really think we're going to believe that now you know nothing about it, even though your vet is supposedly involved in the studies, and that you need anecdotal evidence to decide if this is a good product? Despite YOUR VET being (supposedly) involved in the studies?

    Quit product pushing. It doesn't work here.



  4. #4

    Default

    For people who don't want to click the link, this is from the other post:

    Quote Originally Posted by FCFARM View Post
    There is a very cool new probiotic that is on the market that my vet introduced to me. He just did some trial studies on it. It is called Equiotic and is the only one made from Horse sourced bacteria. The studies that are available on it are pretty impressive. I have two horses on it and they have improved greatly. I had one that had the runs and it cleared in one day!

    Part of the trial was for vaccinations. They give the Equiotic a day before and a day after.



  5. #5
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    Isn't bacteria bacteria? We aren't inventing the wheel here. And I agree product pushers in disguise have no place here.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
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    Default

    Wow, I find a product that is so different and want to tell people about it and what do you get? Is this sharing? So, did you use it? I am excited that something as simple as this has hit the market with real information and you guys give me grief for it? If you notice I also like Uckele and and a bunch of other companies that have done me good. Maybe I should just share the bad stories of the companies and trainers that have done me wrong in 35 years. I am lucky the vets I use work on clinical trials. I get to look at a lot of technology that you will never see that is being used on very expensive racing TB.

    Enjoy. If you don't like it then don't use it.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    You've entirely missed the point about the posts directed back at you.

    I'm still waiting, as I posted on another thread you posted on, where the proof is that this is so new and different. The articles linked to on the website are about general lactobacillus varieties and other similar "biotics", and while the Japanese foal study did seem to indicate that proper use of the l. species improved weight gain, I found nothing to indicate what's so special about "equine sourced bacteria" that isn't already found in most probiotics out there today.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FCFARM View Post
    Before I spend some bucks, does anyone have any experience with it?
    I have two horses on it and they have improved greatly. I had one that had the runs and it cleared in one day!
    So which is it -- you want people to tell you if it works before you try it, or you already have two horses on it and it solved one horse's problem in one day?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
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    50

    Smile

    "I'll tell you what it is. I had one horse it seemed to help. I researched ALL of the products out there. This one had things that others didn't. It helped one horse with the runs then it seemed to help two others that seemed to be uncompfortable. One success story does not make a trial. I want to know if anyone else has had the same success that I had. Is it a fluke.
    Have you ever come across something that was so different you had to pinch yourself to make sure you were not deceived? Are you familiar with the dynamics of the hind gut and all that they effect. You a darn right if I am gonna talk about something that brings a higher quality of life to the horses in my care! Excuse me if I am over zealous but with all the misery caused by ignorance on horses, when I find something that I think works but am not a scientist to varify, I will mention it.
    Don't even get me going on the change that Progressive HF has had on our two Grand Prix horses. I might push the product too much and someone might actually benefit from it.
    It is a real good feed though for performance horses.



  10. #10
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    So why did you feel the need to lie in your OP?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    You've entirely missed the point about the posts directed back at you.

    I'm still waiting, as I posted on another thread you posted on, where the proof is that this is so new and different. The articles linked to on the website are about general lactobacillus varieties and other similar "biotics", and while the Japanese foal study did seem to indicate that proper use of the l. species improved weight gain, I found nothing to indicate what's so special about "equine sourced bacteria" that isn't already found in most probiotics out there today.
    So, you don't get the article that the Lactobasillus was sourced from the horse. That was the point of the entire articles!!! It was commensal with the animal. Not a foreign body. If you don't get that then don't bother trying it.



  12. #12
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Is there a study that compares "equine sourced" lactobacillus vs, say, cow sourced? Because that study is:

    "A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trial was conducted on 54 neonatal foals to examine the effect and safety of a host-specific probiotic preparation. The probiotic contained a mixture of five strains of lactobacilli isolated from healthy horses "

    It only states that the foals getting the probiotic had better weight gain than those that didn't

    I want a study that shows that foals getting the equine-source lacto have better weight gain than foals getting lacto from another species. That is, after all, what the marketing hype is about, that equine-sourced is superior.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FCFARM View Post
    So, you don't get the article that the Lactobasillus was sourced from the horse. That was the point of the entire articles!!! It was commensal with the animal. Not a foreign body. If you don't get that then don't bother trying it.
    Well, but the foal study only tests horse-sourced lactobasillus against a placebo. So you can say the horse-sourced lactobasillus works better than a placebo, but you can't claim it works better than lactobasillus from other sources.

    The foal study also says that "Previous studies in horses have not shown any clinically important effects.7,8 However, the bacterial strains used in the commercially available probiotic have not been disclosed."

    So all that is really known is that previous studies showed no significant effects. Unless someone can confirm those studies used non-horse-sourced bacteria, you can't claim that non-horse-sourced bacteria as a group are ineffective or less effective than horse-sourced bacteria since the source in those studies isn't known.

    The abstract for "Efficacy of Saccharomyces boulardii for treatment of horses with acute enterocolitis" (2005) concludes "Administration of S boulardii may help decrease the severity and duration of clinical signs in horses with acute enterocolitis."

    The abstract doesn't say if the findings were significantly significant, but they suggest that the (source unidentified) Saccharomyces boulardii were beneficial to some degree.

    And so on.

    I don't see anything that changes my general opinion of probiotics, and definitely nothing to convince me that horse-sourced probiotics are superior to other types.

    Have you ever come across something that was so different you had to pinch yourself to make sure you were not deceived?
    Yes. And usually after pinching myself, I discover the product is not nearly as different/unique/exceptional as the marketing suggests. It may be a good product that produces real results, but almost never, IME, at the level the marketing claims.



  14. #14
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    Feb. 19, 2012
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    Default

    So the fact that only a commensal bacteria will produce rueteri or its metabolites does not make a difference? Also, the CFU's are much greater. That doesn't mean anything? Those are two facts you are not taking into account. Also the fact that the foals in the study grew 20% larger doesn't mean anything. So, you would give sugar and hope for the same?

    Sounds to me like you are missing the whole point when this is different. I would be more than happy to send you the comparison sheets I assembled when I looked into this. I am not a research pro or a scientist but, I know different when I see it and I do know vets from Harvard on down that think it was worth a try. I do appreciate the response. And I will look at it with a bit more jaundice eye but, When I get something out of the blue and it works the way it did I wanted some assurance that it wasn't just my wanting to do so.



  15. #15
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    Much greater than what? The "study" said much greater than others. What others, and what were their numbers?

    We haven't missed the point. You are missing ours.

    You and Equiotic are saying horse-sourced lacto is superior, yet you and Equiotic only point to a study that compared horse-source lacto against a placebo.

    That 100% emphatically does not prove equine-sourced probiotics are superior to other species' sourced probiotics. It only said the e-s foals did better than those that received a placebo.

    Show us a study that challenges equine-source lacto against cow/sheep/pig/goat/human/whatever-sourced lacto. That's what will prove what you are claiming
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2012
    Posts
    50

    Default

    OK so also the fact that we are looking at 10-20 billion CFU's a dose doesn't mean anything either?

    You guys make a good point though. But, I am enthused because I had been frustrated by other probiotics and wondered why they worked or didn't work. CFU's I surmised was a big reason.

    So, you guys feel that basic 101 biology could not lead you to conclude that a bacteria that is commensal with the animal could not be more effective? Even though in the study it showed that it produced reuteri and metabolites when the non-commensal bacteria did not?

    More CFU's AND a commensal bacteria? Compared to lesser CFU's and NON-Commensal bacteria? Huh, interesting conclusions.

    I am not a scientist but, this doesn't seem right.

    There is another study from Canada I had read about the billions of CFU's needed. I googled that one and can't find it now.

    I will keep my eyes open but, I was amazed at the one horse and still want to see if there are any other stories.

    What are your opinions on Bio-Sponge?



  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FCFARM View Post
    So, you guys feel that basic 101 biology could not lead you to conclude that a bacteria that is commensal with the animal could not be more effective?
    I make logic-based conclusions all the time, sometimes even on what to give my horse. I don't require scientific studies for everything. But I'm also aware that the reason scientists rely on studies vs. going with logical conclusions is that logical conclusions can sometimes turn out to be wrong.

    There is a difference between "Based on what I know, I think this product is superior" and "This product has proven to be superior." This first may be true in this case; the second is not (yet).

    Here's the thing:

    If I were going to use a probiotic, the fact that there is a study showing equine-sourced bacteria had a significant, non-placebo effect would carry a great deal of weight with me.

    I would be inclined to buy an equine-sourced probiotic over a different-species-sourced probiotic since there is definite data on the first and not the second.

    But where I diverge from you is that I would not then conclude a different-species probiotic works less well, or doesn't work at all.

    And I can think of many reasons why a probiotic would not work that have nothing to do with the type of bacteria, such as the manufacturing process, the shipping and storage process, correct application, etc.

    As far as the other studies/details, I'd honestly have to sit down and spend more time with them to make sure I understood them. They might or might not lead me towards the same conclusions you are drawing, but even if I draw the same conclusions, that's not proof of anything.

    The only way to prove e-s bacteria are superior to other types is to do a direct study + placebo group.

    I don't know anything about bio-sponge except that it has a lot of anecdotal support.



  18. #18
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    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    36,321

    Default

    So the fact that only a commensal bacteria will produce rueteri or its metabolites does not make a difference?
    reuteri is the species name of the lactobacillus used in this product. The bacteria do not PRODUCE reuteri. The bacteria are NAMED reuteri.

    "Equine-sourced" seems to be a niche that nobody had grabbed yet, and this company did so and that is their shtick. I'm unconvinced this is a compelling reason to think this product is any different than another. And I have a degree in microbiology, FWIW.

    It was commensal with the animal. Not a foreign body.
    You seem to be using "foreign body" to indicate some sort of malevolent presence. Food is a "foreign body". Bacteria are commensal and cohabitate with all of us (the friendly ones) but I wouldn't consider them either foreign bodies nor "part of us". Peaceful coexistence. Symbiosis.

    I am not a scientist but, this doesn't seem right.
    When something doesn't seem right, one should not necessarily jump to the opposite conclusion. One is compelled to obtain evidence. That's what scientists DO. And *anyone* can be a scientist in this regard, by doing the tedious legwork. And it isn't typically done on Google, BTW.

    So, you guys feel that basic 101 biology could not lead you to conclude that a bacteria that is commensal with the animal could not be more effective?
    See above. Logical thinkers do not CONCLUDE anything without some evidence, facts, or what have you. If species-specific bacteria are vastly better for colonizing the gut in the form of a probiotic, that evidence should READILY reveal itself in good quality studies designed to answer just such a question. In the absence of that evidence, basic biology 101 would, in fact, favor the opposite conclusion: that L. reuteri is probably L. reuturi, no matter where it originated.
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 27, 2012
    Posts
    1

    Thumbs up I Had Success with EquiOtic!

    I realize I'm late to this party, but I spent the past 2 months trying to help my daughter's horse to feel well enough to ride again. I happened on to this thread and wanted to post my findings in case anyone else does the same. We started out with a hoof problem, did radiographs and found her hoof angles on front needed to change. I assumed once that was corrected, we would be back in business. Such was not the case. Our horse seemed like she didn't feel well and was starting to buck when my daughter tried to ride. Seemed like gastric ulcer, so vet prescribed a week of Gastroguard. Helped a little, but still not rideable. Did bloodwork and she was a little anemic. Assumed it was an ulcer, more Gastroguard and Mega-Sel. Still no improvement in riding, so took her to be scoped. No ulcers! Stomach looked great. Did fecal test for occult blood to check for hind gut ulcer - negative. All good news, but didn't help. I told the vet she seemed very gassy. He had us try EquiOtic. After 2 doses, she seemed more interested in her hay. After 5 doses, I lunged her and had a horse raring to go! My daughter is riding dressage again! I used a Pre / Probiotic before using EquiOtic (SmartDigest). Our horse is on quite a regimen of supplements for preventive treatment and is in the picture of health. It's unbelievable the change EquiOtic has created. I'm a definite believer!



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2012
    Location
    Wadsworth ,Ohio
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    1

    Default

    This probiotic has made an 180degree change in my Appendix Quarter Horse's "gut comfort" and subsequently his mental attitude. Although he has been on Equiotic for several months, the change in his eating habits and behavior occurred within three days of adding the packet form to his feed. I will not be without a supply of Equiotic in both paste and packets from now on. Buy it!



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