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  1. #1
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    Feb. 19, 2011
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    Default Confused about drug rules. So if you're H/J, it's ok use Sedivet at shows?

    I can read. I can comprehend. But this just isn't making sense to me or am I missing something here? I am dressage and I follow the rules that I thought were general rules which applied to everyone. Is there a secret subset of rules for H/J trainers?

    I just read that Sedivet (romifidine) is on the banned substance list. So tell me, how is it possible for an H/J trainer to give that drug while at a show? How long does that drug stay with the horse?



  2. #2
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    Feb. 6, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Lovin' Dressage Rider View Post
    I just read that Sedivet (romifidine) is on the banned substance list. So tell me, how is it possible for an H/J trainer to give that drug while at a show? How long does that drug stay with the horse?
    It's possible because not every horse gets tested.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  3. #3
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    Default

    Really??? The risk is worth it?

    Apparently it is if they are doing it...
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.



  4. #4
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    It's possible if it was given for a therapeutic reason (ie, to sedate a horse to treat an injury), an official med report was filed, and the horse wasn't shown until 24 hours after treatment. It's also possible if the horse was at the show but not showing or done showing, or if the show was unrated. Or it's possible someone was taking a big chance of getting tested and getting caught.



  5. #5
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    Default

    What CBoylen said. But if the risk vs. reward calculus seems favorable to any given trainer or owner, they will take the chance of not being tested and do what "needs" to be done.

    It probably happens in other disciplines that put a premium on extremely quiet horses as well.
    Click here before you buy.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    It's possible if it was given for a therapeutic reason (ie, to sedate a horse to treat an injury), an official med report was filed, and the horse wasn't shown until 24 hours after treatment. It's also possible if the horse was at the show but not showing or done showing, or if the show was unrated. Or it's possible someone was taking a big chance of getting tested and getting caught.


    They gave it and then jumped courses. No report filed that I have heard. Yes shown more than 24 hours post injection.


    Unrated show? Well I don't know. Its a HITS show, which I believe is a pretty big show in H/J land. Right? ;-) Huh. I guess this just must be what some H/J trainers do.




    .



  7. #7
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    Yes shown more than 24 hours post injection.
    In that case, it's likely they gave it for a reason and then filed a report. It's only effective for about an hour. It will test for at least 72 hours, 7 days to be absolutely on the safe side. There would be very little reward to the risk of giving it 24 hours before showing without giving it for a legal therapeutic purpose, as it would very likely still test but will have absolutely no effect on the horse.
    Or, the horse did a ticketed warmup instead of actually showing.
    If you are certain about the actual medication given and the timetable, as well as the identity of the horse and its show schedule, surely you are close enough to the situation to just ask and see what explanation you get?



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    surely you are close enough to the situation to just ask and see what explanation you get?


    Unprofessional/clueless running of business, worst customer service on the planet, false promises, false agreement, shitty follow through and shitty communicator that is detrimental to their business.



  9. #9
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Unprofessional/clueless running of business, worst customer service on the planet, false promises, false agreement, shitty follow through and shitty communicator that is detrimental to their business.
    If that's the case you'll either need to directly communicate better yourself to make up for their deficiencies, or realize that Sedivet is probably not your actual problem here. It doesn't sound like "they" are making any attempt to hide anything from you, so I'm tempted to think there is a rational explanation for a medication misunderstanding. All the rest of that sounds like a bigger issue, but not fixable via internet.



  10. #10
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    I was surprised it was an illegal substance, can be used at shows, and that someone is always trying to stretch the rules. My questions about the drug was answered. Thanks.

    The surprise comes when you get the bill, and when you see things tacked onto your vet bill. ;-)

    Direct communication doesn't work, as they are "too busy to respond". There is no such thing as responding to a text out of acknowledgement or courtesy, or even phone calls when inquiring about how the horses are. They are "busy showing your horses".

    Exactly. The problem is: Integrity. Some people just don't have any integrity! They lead you to believe they are honest and can communicate (especially when you are talking money and paying bills, they can communicate). Then they have your horses, you are paying the bills, and you find out what the truth is.



  11. #11
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    Feb. 14, 2003
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    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
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    Hmm....as a "local" to you Dutch Lovin' I'm dying to know which H/J trainer you are referring to (I can figure out who is at Thermal, based on the results) but that leaves me guessing!

    The pressure to have a horse perform in the quiet, easy way that is required at top levels of the sport is immense. Still doesn't give anyone the right to cheat. Therapeutic measures, sure. Follow the rules. Sedivet doesn't make sense unless used immediately, for a competition advantage.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!



  12. #12
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    It would seem to me that, if a horse were injured at a show and the use of a sedative was necessary to treat said injury, that the bill for that treatment, as well as the D&M reporting form, would be originating from a DVM and not a trainer.
    But that's just me...
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  13. #13
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    Not necessarily local.

    No. There was no injury.

    "Professionals" being unprofessional. Dishonest, lack of follow through, poor communication? Not in my business. We follow DEA rules. We mean business and we run it as one! All clients treated the same if they spend 1 or 100K. Now if our business lacked integrity, honesty, and communication, it would surely not be grossing 1.5M. Yes as in an easy one million five hundred thousand. We update our clients regularly without prompting, and respond to them promptly and efficiently. And they have not even had to spend close to 20 grand by the time one show is through to get such good treatment. ;-) Apparently you need to spend more to get customer service, honesty, integrity? Sorry, we didn't know. Too bad they aren't into damage control and heading things off at the pass. Integrity would have gotten them far. Yes and when attorneys write you an NSF check, it is bad bad bad. Lacking integrity and honesty is bad. They really do jeopardize being disbarred. And no, I do not set those rules! :-)

    And yes USEF does set the drug rules. Why must some people always try to break them? :-(



  14. #14
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    Since it makes no sense from a competitive advantage to use it a day before you show, could it have been given to clip/pull mane etc? Why did you have a "vet" bill if the horse wasn't injured? When I worked in a barn clients weren't given a vet bill for any medications given at a show, it was billed by the trainer under medications. Just wondering. Obviously no idea why the horse was medicated, but if shown the next day it certainly was not to get the horse quiet for the show ring.



  15. #15
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    Why in the world are you associated with this person if they have such poor integrity?
    ******
    "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
    -H.M.E.



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