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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    20,086

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    My collie was blamed for chasing my neighbor's cattle. She did herd a loose heifer (broke down our common fence) back into her pasture. She did run to the common fence line and bark at another cow who was sticking her head through the fence to graze. But my collie has never been in his pastures. However, to keep the peace, she's on leash restriction or under direct supervision at all times now and she's never allowed in the pasture adjacent to the cows.

    A couple of weeks ago, I caught another neighbor's pit bulls chasing and attacking his cows. Twice. Cattle neighbor still won't admit it was not my collie chasing them (but his wife knows). I believe AC came and confiscated the PBs. It's been an ongoing problem that the PB owner has not tried to fix with any real effort.

    AC doesn't put up with dogs harassing livestock. Sadly, it appears that it's OK to starve your livestock in my county, but they draw the line at dogs killing them.
    Last edited by LauraKY; Feb. 17, 2012 at 12:18 PM.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
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    9,274

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    I don't particularly care about the pet owners. It obviously wasn't the first time the dog got out or attacked something (the dachshund it attacked according to the owners). I doubt the chicken owner put cameras up without previous problems or attacks, whether that was by another animal or the same one.

    The local ordnance is what the sheriff's office went by, and I support them in that. The timing of the dog being put down doesn't matter to me, since the ordnance is clear that the animal would be destroyed. In fact, since the dog would have to be at animal control and caged, then it was kinder that it went faster. If the owners think there was a snowball's chance in hell they were going to get this ruling overturned or changed then they are wrong. I feel sorry for the farmer whether they were raising chickens as a part of their livelihood or just because. The chickens were on someone else's property, and the dog not only running loose, but destroyed someone else's animals. It sounds to me that the animal's previous behavior attacking their other dog wasn't seen as a problem by the owners until the animal was caught attacking the chickens.

    If the dog owners wanted their children to be happy, then they would have kept the dog secure on their property. There are a number of other ways a roaming animal could be injured or die, but this way was preventable. They are lucky the chicken owner didn't sue them for a lot more than just the replacement value of the chickens. And no one ever said what happened to the dachshund that the dog owners had also, and that this dog previously attacked. The owners regrets are too little, too late.
    Last edited by JanM; Feb. 17, 2012 at 12:27 PM.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  3. #43
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2002
    Posts
    1,764

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    [QUOTE=Kate66;6147939]
    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    "beloved" dogs don't run around unsupervised off their owners property. One awol episode is an accident, two or more is someone who doesn't care about their dog or their neighbors.
    QUOTE]

    Not true. If you read my post we spent > $10k on fencing, had a supposedly "dog proof" gate etc. We had 4 big dogs and he was the ONLY one that would get out. Some dogs are total escape artists. Our only alternative would have been to keep our dog literally tied up. I can't tell you how many countless hours we spent walking our fenceline (non-climb horse mesh fencing with a bar across the top) trying to find if there were ANY holes anywhere underneath that he was getting out through. We couldn't believe our eyes when we saw him one day literally climb a 4.5' mesh gate, squeeze himself out between the top 2 bars and go trotting off down the road. If we hadn't cared about our dogs or neighbors we sure as heck wouldn't have wasted $10k on the fencing, we certainly didn't need it for the horses.

    Of course too many people don't have fences. ALL dogs should be kept fenced. Drives me nuts when I walk down the road and someone's dog comes running out at me. However, not all dogs that get out are neglected or not loved. Some, like our one, was just too smart for his own good.
    Heavy chain link fencing, set in a concrete pad with a chain link roof. If boarding kennels can keep in dogs, so can everyone else.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    6,991

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    Have you ever read a story about a murdering thug who finally was shot and his momma says, "But he was a good boy, he never caused no harm".

    Same with dogs..."He was a perfect dog, the kids LUV him and he was just acting like a dog, he didn't know a chicken/horse/goat shouldn't be killed".

    Yeah, right. Any dog that chases livestock should be killed as quickly as possible, no excuses. Shoot, shovel and shut up! The 3 S's.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    15,797

    Cool

    The owner's the one who should be euthanized. Poor kids - to have stupid parents is the ultimate curse.

    The dog I have no sympathy for; any dog that repeatedly attacks anything else should be euthanized. The only thing that is heartening about the whole story is that the stupid owner had the dog forcibly removed before it decided to turn on her children and harm one of them. That would have been a tragedy; this, not so much.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,516

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    Why not put a humane muzzle ( the ones they can still drink with it on) on escape artist dogs? That would help with the killings.
    Oh, that wouldn't stop them from running animals to death. Still, if you have a Houdini it's better than nothing.



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 2009
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    146

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    [QUOTE=BabyGoose;6152077]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kate66 View Post

    Heavy chain link fencing, set in a concrete pad with a chain link roof. If boarding kennels can keep in dogs, so can everyone else.
    I don't believe this. Some dogs can get out of anything.

    My dad had a run as you described, fence set in concrete with a roof. One of his GSD could still get out. We have no idea how, come home one dog meets you at the house, the other dog is sitting in the run. He could get out of the stalls when there was nothing in them and the walls were about 15' boards to 4 then bars the rest of the way. Funny thing was, if he had a round bale to sit on he wouldn't leave the stall. He really was Houdini. I don't think he went very far once he was out, neighbors never said they saw him (200acre property, bush on all sides). He also escaped while he was at a kennel. Found him a week later 200km away, I guess he was trying to go home?



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    9,429

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    [QUOTE=K.;6152688]
    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGoose View Post

    I don't believe this. Some dogs can get out of anything.

    My dad had a run as you described, fence set in concrete with a roof. One of his GSD could still get out. We have no idea how, come home one dog meets you at the house, the other dog is sitting in the run. He could get out of the stalls when there was nothing in them and the walls were about 15' boards to 4 then bars the rest of the way. Funny thing was, if he had a round bale to sit on he wouldn't leave the stall. He really was Houdini. I don't think he went very far once he was out, neighbors never said they saw him (200acre property, bush on all sides). He also escaped while he was at a kennel. Found him a week later 200km away, I guess he was trying to go home?
    I've never seen a dog get out of a transport kennel.

    We "kennel trained" our dogs without exception (when we had dogs). It made them very easy to house break. We took the kennels with us when we traveled and they never left "home" (meaning much less "travel anxiety"). We were more welcome in motels and other public accomodations. We never had issues of "dogs at large."

    Claiming "houdini status" for a dog is just another way for the human to deny responsibility for the animal.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    20,086

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    [QUOTE=Guilherme;6152873]
    Quote Originally Posted by K. View Post

    Claiming "houdini status" for a dog is just another way for the human to deny responsibility for the animal.

    G.
    Or to prove the dog is smarter than the owner.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    9,429

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    [QUOTE=LauraKY;6153020]
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post

    Or to prove the dog is smarter than the owner.
    Possible.

    True Story: Back in the '70s we had nice Bernese Mountain Dog. We went out of town and the kennel run he was in could not hold him. The owners were friends of ours and they would put him up, only to have him on their back porch within a few minutes. They could not figure out how he did it. Then, one day, they tried a kennel with a roof. No escape. Now these kennel fences between the runs were about 6' tall. We never could figure out how he jumped that fence.

    We moved out of state shortly thereafter and the dog went to live with some friends in Pensacola, FL while my wife was in school at NAS Pensacola. I came for a weekend visit and, while she was in class, went over to see the dog. He saw me and started running around. Then he ran to a tree that was almost touching the chain link fence (that was about 5' tall). He "wedged" himself against the tree, and climbed the fence. When he got to the top he jumped down and ran over to me. I was just astounded that he could do that.

    Of course the Moral of the Story is that this dog had to be in a kennel run with top. He had mastered a "houdini-like" trick. Indeed, in a yard there could not be anything he could "brace" against. We've never had a dog since that could do anything like that.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2011
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    Its not nowhere, but you can see it from here
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    Our friends had to take their dog to state fair with them because he has repeatedly chewed his way out of metal kennels. The dog has almost no teeth because he chews his way out of anything. Sweetest dog ever, just won't stay contained.
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"



  12. #52
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2002
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    1,764

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    I still maintain it is possible to keep any dog contained. Our property used to be a boarding kennel and we still have the old kennel building that we use for a workshop, storage, etc. But we left a couple kennels intact for our dogs. There is no way a dog would get out of those kennels. Chain link buried in concrete slab so there is no digging out. Chain link roof so there are no gaps to squeeze through if they climb up the walls. Tight gates that can be padlocked. I think many people try to cobble together a kennel and leave gaps, loose roof, gates that don't fit right and leave gaps, and then the dogs get out. Again, how do vets offices, boarding kennels etc. keep dogs in. They have the proper kennels to keep any dog in, that's how.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. View Post

    I don't believe this. Some dogs can get out of anything. . .
    They can get out of holes significantly smaller than you might think, but they can't demolecularize themselves and pass through a chain link fence with a properly fastened roof and foundation.
    I believe the dog got out alright, but I don't believe he could have gotten out of a run constructed differently. My dog got out of his first run by jumping to the top of the Dogloo and basically bouncing off a tree and up and over. Once we reconstructed the run using cattle panels wired down on top, no trees inside etc, he never got out again. He did try to dig out as well, and hit limestone
    I'm sure there are manic chewers out there who eventually could chew their way out, but what that says is that the dog owner isn't giving the pen a once over on a regular basis to make sure that some part of the kennel hasn't broken or worn to failure.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
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    Some dogs also climb chain link or the regular wire square fencing like a ladder. Years ago we had a dog that would do that, or else a certain parent who didn't like dogs let him out (guess which one I think it was).

    And the renters up the street (the only rental house on the street, they rented for more than market value to people who were less than good renters-that policy certainly came back to bite them in the fanny) had a kid about 12 who roamed the street constantly, got into everything, wandered constantly, and on one occasion I caught him opening our gate-he claimed he was just looking, but trust me I made that an unattractive option. SOme kids are just left to their own devices, and get into trouble-it's sad that his parents never trained him in legal and moral courtesies, and left it to others to do, and I certainly took care of that since no one saw him on our property again. I think he just liked to cause mischief, and had a lot of time on his hands, but our dog got out of the yard a couple of times around then, so I certainly figured out how.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  15. #55
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    Oct. 5, 2009
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    146

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    I didn't mean to say that because he could escape his run we should be not be accountable for his actions. Far from it, only that some dogs are good at getting out. We were always concerned he would get into or cause trouble while he was out. As his owner my dad was always aware of his responsibility for the dogs actions. Luckily for us he never seemed to cause any problem.

    If a loose dog attacked any of our chickens, rabbits. etc I would have no trouble dealing with it. I goes both ways, I would expect other neighbors to act the same way if it was our dog.



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2003
    Posts
    185

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    My neighbor owns an Akita which she allows to run loose all day. She does have an underground shock fence, but it does not work too well at times (especially when there is snow on the ground). The local fish and game officer had seen this dog running down deer and trying to kill them (the deer had a hard time running due to the heavy snow last year). The officer got her telephone # from another neighbor, and was going to call her to tell her if he saw the dog running deer again, he would shoot the dog. She controlled the dog last year; however, the dog is now allowed to roam free again, only contained by the underground shock fence. If the dog ends up getting shot by the fish and game officer, it will be her fault as she was warned, and chose not to keep the dog under control. Sad for the dog - so called dog lover for an owner.



  17. #57
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    Mar. 21, 2006
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    1,090

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    When I moved here I met several neighbors and told them I had dogs and none of them would be allowed to run loose and if any of my dogs were seen running loose it was a mistake and not intentional and I would appreciate it if they called me but if the dogs were in anyway being threatening to them, livestock,pets etc that I would understand if they were shot and if that happened if they would let me know and not just sss. Sometimes you don't know your dog is the kind that will escape from a reasonable enclosure until it does. I have 3 dogs in an outside fenced yard, only one of them was able to get out of the 6 ft fence, the other 2 couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe it, we had to extend the fence another 2 ft. and remove anything she could use to bounce over. No other escapes in 6 years.



  18. #58

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    I had a situation where a neighbor's dog killed 2,000.00 in poultry over an approximate 3 year period. I spent over 1000.00 reinforcing my fence and making repairs wherever the dog tore up the fence. I repeatedly offered to try and train their dog. I was constantly calling them about the dog being on the property and actively killing birds.

    Even after all of the attacks (on my property, inside my fence), the dog still roamed. They made some attempts to contain the dog (putting it on a chain, locking it in a horse stall), but it continued to escape - and kill my birds.

    After three years of this, I'd had enough. I warned the owners that I would be taking action to protect my poultry. Sure enough, the dog came into my fence again and killed birds and I had to take lethal action against the dog. It was one of the hardest things I'd ever had to do in my life. But these people didn't care about my animals, the death of my pets, or the damage to my poultry business.

    The owners are still mad at me, and they still blame me for the death of their beloved family pet. My take is that it was their responsibility to keep their dog from killing my animals. I gave the dog three years and several thousand dollars worth of chances. I have not lost a bird since the death of the dog, so I know that he was the main predator.

    I do feel bad for their family and for the loss of their pet. This was a hard decision for me to make. I wish they had felt bad enough about my losses and loved their dog enough to put up a fence and keep their dog in their yard. This has been a real unfortunate situation all around, and the one who lost out in the end was the dog.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2007
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
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    1,024

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanM View Post
    When a 'beloved family animal' is allowed to run, allowed to kill livestock, or in other cases attack and maim humans then the dog needs to be put down. And the owner will be legally liable for their neglect, and that's right also. People who love their animals keep them safe, and don't let an animal attack other people or other animals.

    And I read the article. The law is being followed, and it's too bad the dog will suffer, but it's the owner's fault. How many threads on here talk about domestic animals preying on livestock or wildlife, but the owner refuses to believe their dog did it? The chicken farmer has photographic proof of the identity of the animals and what they did, and I really doubt that the farmer has had this camera on the coop forever. Usually people only put up game cameras when there have been previous attacks. I doubt it's the first flock the two dogs have decimated, and who knows what other livestock. When you adopt an animal you assume the responsibilities that come with it, and this owner didn't.
    ^^^^This.

    I have two neighbors who let their dogs run loose. One neighbor's dogs are respectful of the horses and mind their own business.

    The other neighbor is from the road up on the ridge and has been a nut case all his life - so are his dogs. A county deputy is my neighbor, I called him about the dogs coming down and chasing my horses (two are 26 & 28 with arthritis). The deputy talked to the guy and it wasn't their first conversation.

    The guy must've thought it was a joke when the deputy said we were within our rights to shoot his dogs if they chased our livestock. Mr. WTW shot over the Weasel dog's head (anything that weighs less than 30 pounds is a weasel dog in my book). That was the last time we saw the dogs-----------------

    He has children too but, I really don't care. I was raised on a dairy farm and saw what happens to dairy cows when dogs run them thru the fence, drag them down, and we lost milk & money on top of that.

    If the owner won't control a misbehaving dog and it brings that bad behavior onto my property, I will fix the problem myself. I won't want to but sorry, my horses come before some nitwit's dog with behavior issues.



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