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  1. #1
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    Smile AQHA appears to take action

    In the United States public pressure and threat of legal actions has made the AQHA take action.

    http://www.thehorse.com/​viewarticle...rc​e=rss

    AQHA Convenes First Animal Welfare Commission

    www.thehorse.com



  2. #2
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    no page at link.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    In the United States public pressure and threat of legal actions has made the AQHA take action.

    http://www.thehorse.com/​viewarticle...rc​e=rss

    AQHA Convenes First Animal Welfare Commission

    www.thehorse.com
    I am not aware of any "threat of legal actions" and those links won't work for me, so can't respond and would like to know more what you are referring to there.

    Edited to add the one link I found:

    http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19589

    Is that what you are referring to?

    I don't see anything about any lawsuits there.
    If you are going to be a pot stirrer, you need to give us more to go by.

    You may not be aware of this, but the AQHA has had for decades rules and regulations and vets and inspectors that were doing the best they can to regulate their shows and racing.

    There have always been people that are abusive in all we do, including in what they do with AQHA horses.
    The association has always been trying to stay up with that and punish anyone caught.
    They were the first ones to have a box in the transfer papers to check if you want to be connected to any one horse you sell, so you can see it doesn't fall thru the cracks.

    I really don't quite get where you are coming from with your OP.



  4. #4

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    what on Earth are you talking about??

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  5. #5

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    go the The Horse page and it's the second link from there

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  6. #6
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    The commission is about "protecting the industry, our livelihood and, most importantly, the horse," Heird said.

    I know where that is going.

    Been there, done that with the Equine Welfare Board here in KY.
    It's all about the industry, the industry and then the industry.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  7. #7
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    Some more RARA propaganda....

    In the United States public pressure and threat of legal actions has made the AQHA take action.
    An why preface it with "in the United States"?



  8. #8
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    Fo those who do not want to click the link:

    "Recognizing that animal welfare is the single-most important issue facing the equine industry today, the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) Executive Committee has appointed the 12-member AQHA Animal Welfare Commission, which met Feb. 6-8 in Dallas.

    The Animal Welfare Commission's mission "is to provide a framework for its members to 1) identify issues negatively affecting the welfare of the American Quarter Horse, 2) discuss issues, and 3) recommend actions that will help to protect the American Quarter Horse from inhumane practices and AQHA and its members from the negative impacts associated with those practices. The AQHA Animal Welfare Commission, in an effort to do right by the horse, will share discussion, action items and recommendations with alliance partners."

    Jim Heird, executive professor and coordinator of the equine sciences initiative at Texas A&M University, is the chairman of the commission.

    "This commission has the opportunity to move forward with what we feel we need to do," Heird said. "We have made some significant progress in the past, but we need to do more. The public and our membership demands it, our horses deserve it."

    The commission reviewed what AQHA has done with regard to animal welfare.

    "We have the best education system for our judges," said George Phillips, AQHA Executive Committee member and commission member. "We started the AQHA Stewards program ... while the program represents steps forward, as we move into the third year of having stewards, we need to make adjustments and improve it to do more in the name of animal welfare. On the racing side, AQHA has been involved with better regulation of medication and drug use in racing American Quarter Horses."

    Commission members then laid out what they consider the big issues in the American Quarter Horse industry with regard to animal welfare. Some of those include penalties, the AQHA Steward program, equipment, communication and education, treatment of the animal, security, judges, and medication and drugs.

    Read inspiring true stories of ex-racehorses that successfully transitioned from track to new careers when re-trained in Second-Chance Horses and the difference they made in the lives of people around them.

    The commission will present its actions and ideas for improvement to the AQHA Show and Professional Horsemen Committee at the 2012 AQHA Convention in March in Las Vegas. Also at the convention, AQHA Executive Vice President Don Treadway Jr. will present a report on the commission's activity to the directors during the summit on Friday, March 9, and to the general membership on Saturday, March 10.

    The commission is about "protecting the industry, our livelihood and, most importantly, the horse," Heird said.

    Commission members are Sandy Arledge; Glenn Blodgett, DVM; Kevin Dukes, Eleanor Green, DVM, Dipl. ACVIM, Dipl. ABVP; Carol Harris; Paul Jones; Tom Lenz, DVM, Dipl. ACT; Clark Parker; Sam Rose; and Sandy Vaughn."



  9. #9
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    For those that don't know, in the 1970's and 80's we were training and racing AQHA and TBs and we were then extremely regulated by both registries and the state we were running in.

    Horses at shows were randomly inspected, when the fad of altering tails came to be, that too was checked and exhibitors suspended for that and other violations.
    Anyone caught was suspended, some for life.

    Those that think the AQHA was not already looking after the welfare of their horses at shows and races just missed some history.

    By the way, the ASHA and any other association in charge of performance horses have always been proactive to protect the horses, as soon as they were aware of any new wrinkle in questionable practices.
    At the AQHA shows, they even check stalls at night, so no one may put horses in compromising positions, like tied around or to the ceiling or way down and other such.

    No matter what we do, there are some humans that just are not very good, be it abusive parents, policemen, teachers, religious leaders and even rescue managers.


    I still don't see any reference to any lawsuits?



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    Some more RARA propaganda....



    An why preface it with "in the United States"?
    Yeah, considering it's really unlikely the AMERICAN Quarter Horse Association would have jurisdiction over or be headquartered anywhere else...



  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Yeah, considering it's really unlikely the AMERICAN Quarter Horse Association would have jurisdiction over or be headquartered anywhere else...
    the AQHA actually has say of all it's horses regardless of where they are registered....they have affiliates in most SA and EU countries

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  12. #12
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    Wonder when AQHA will ACTUALLY do something about all the lame horses? Judges are told to ignore lame horses, they are not DVMs to diagnose lamenesses. I see them in classes, but everyone just ignores them or "expects" all winning AQHA horses to move that poorly because it is so common.

    Such horses are easily seen on the Judging videos sold by the AQHA to train folks to look at what is expected in classes. Our 4-H program had the DVDs showing this, were told to ignore any lame horses at the State level training session.

    Nice to hear they are "doing something" but until it truly happens at the lower levels, they are just mouthing words. I never heard of any Stewards applying various new rule over the years to people. Never saw anyone being pulled out of showing here at the State levels back when the tail blocking was news. No tail testing done that I ever heard of. Gossip would have spread on that fast. Tails still looked pretty dead for years after.

    Not seeing any of the local shows doing the request for "forward motion" that is supposed to be mandatory now in the Canter section. Could be a local issue, but no one is talking about it either, so that makes me think such a "radical" rule change is not being pushed in classes by the licensed AQHA Judges.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    In the United States public pressure and threat of legal actions has made the AQHA take action.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    And why preface it with "in the United States"?


    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Yeah, considering it's really unlikely the AMERICAN Quarter Horse Association would have jurisdiction over or be headquartered anywhere else...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    the AQHA actually has say of all it's horses regardless of where they are registered....they have affiliates in most SA and EU countries

    Tamara
    I agree that AQHA has say on ALL quarter horse registry around the world.


    It appeared to me the that the person posting was suggesting that people in the US were finally pressuring some action against AQHA. Like we were finally seeing the light.

    I have no clue where the OP is at. If outside the US, worry about your own country.
    Last edited by 7HL; Feb. 13, 2012 at 07:50 AM.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodhors View Post
    Wonder when AQHA will ACTUALLY do something about all the lame horses? Judges are told to ignore lame horses, they are not DVMs to diagnose lamenesses. I see them in classes, but everyone just ignores them or "expects" all winning AQHA horses to move that poorly because it is so common.

    Such horses are easily seen on the Judging videos sold by the AQHA to train folks to look at what is expected in classes. Our 4-H program had the DVDs showing this, were told to ignore any lame horses at the State level training session.

    Nice to hear they are "doing something" but until it truly happens at the lower levels, they are just mouthing words. I never heard of any Stewards applying various new rule over the years to people. Never saw anyone being pulled out of showing here at the State levels back when the tail blocking was news. No tail testing done that I ever heard of. Gossip would have spread on that fast. Tails still looked pretty dead for years after.

    Not seeing any of the local shows doing the request for "forward motion" that is supposed to be mandatory now in the Canter section. Could be a local issue, but no one is talking about it either, so that makes me think such a "radical" rule change is not being pushed in classes by the licensed AQHA Judges.
    You know, the AQHA is a big registry and has much going on.
    There is plenty that is done well, there is some that slips thru the cracks, some is not done well enough.
    That happens no matter what we do.
    There are plenty of police stations that have investigations about their own policemen breaking laws.
    There are churches and schools investigating their priests and teachers molesting children.
    There are rescues starving horses!

    We have to realize that everyone that is running anything is trying their best, most people running it are trying their best, those participating are most of them decent people doing what they do right.
    Then, there will be, no matter what we do, some lawbreakers, some abusers, some not doing their jobs, some cutting corners.

    All we can do is to keep trying and learn to do what we do better and become even more aware of those that do wrong, so we can stop them.

    I know plenty of people that work in the AQHA, their offices are right here.
    I know people working there at all levels, we have bred their mares and trained horses for some of them.
    They are people like the rest of us, they are trying their best, they are not infallible, they are also not beyond question.

    It is fine to question what they do, to keep their feet to the fire, they expect it.
    We also need to realize that they are already doing so much right and are trying to correct what is not and what that is has been changing as the times change.

    I still don't see where the OP is trying to go with this.



  15. #15
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    I hope this helps.

    I showed a QH in the early 90s, and it was the height of the "ears must never get below the withers" push. Peanut rollers had been terrible before then, and it worked for a while. The problem is one trainer did well with a horse who tended to get low, so others would follow suit again. No one realizes that if a horse who is a little low does well it's usually because of other positive traits, and soon everyone is doing that so it's not possible for judges to place normal looking horses, and again becomes the norm.

    There's a woman in town who gets really nice horses and they do well, and she usually sells them before anyone realizes what she did to their gaits. Now she may be part of the norm here, but when I was looking for a horse my trainer said we shouldn't look at any from her, as she destroyed the canter of every horse who went to her. Since she did a booming buying/selling business, the horses she had usually did well because they were quality, until she sold them on with broken gaits/questionable soundness.

    The problem is, it's easier for someone with no knowledge to point at that woman's horses and say "see, they win!" I know of another breed show trainer (APHA mostly) who takes lessons from her for that reason. That woman's students have to buy and sell their horses very often due to lameness. They are all too ignorant to realize this isn't the norm and don't want to see outside their little bubble where it's ok. It's far easier for a less skilled rider to do well in shows where these broken, hobbling gaits are the norm.
    Does anyone else remember reading the articles in Western Performance Horseman in the late 80s/early 90s where trainers discussed using your seat to slow/speed up your horse's gaits, affect stride length, etc? These were people winning at the world show at the time, who would discuss the flaws which caused a 4-beat gait, and how to avoid that! They would discuss how to avoid having to pass with a horse who needed a more forward gait to move nicely, how to make up for a horse who was shorter/shorter strided in the ring for hunter classes, etc. At that point in time, many of the riders who win now would have done poorly until they learned better. Many current fads are due to folks who don't know what they're doing taking the easy road.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  16. #16
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    Some insider knowledge about the AQHA, riders & showers is being inferred. But I personally don't know what it is. Enlighten, please?

    Quote Originally Posted by xQHDQ View Post
    ... "This commission has the opportunity to move forward with what we feel we need to do," Heird said. "We have made some significant progress in the past, but we need to do more. The public and our membership demands it, our horses deserve it." ...
    About what, specifically? "Horse welfare" is a very broad term!

    Symptoms are being referred to ... what specific causes are you all talking about? Are there particular abuses that are being targeted?


    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    .... Since she did a booming buying/selling business, the horses she had usually did well because they were quality, until she sold them on with broken gaits/questionable soundness.
    ...
    And what exactly was she doing that was causing these issues?

    It's just nicer to know what the conversation is about - thanks!



  17. #17
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    When I go to the Quarter Horse Congress and not see crippled moving horses in the warm-up arenas, I'll know things have changed.
    "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverandOnward View Post
    And what exactly was she doing that was causing these issues?

    It's just nicer to know what the conversation is about - thanks!
    Good point - I have seen so much of it, I tend to think other people have, too! Sorry about that.

    I'm honestly not positive HOW one can destroy a canter as thoroughly as she would.

    Drawreins with nose cranked to knees, yes. Often on a curb bit.

    Longe too hard without any thought about it being beneficial for the body's development, yes.

    Yank on the horse's face to make it slow down with no ability to sit well in the saddle, so you just cause all the parts not to work together, yes.

    Most likely a poorly fitting saddle which combines with all the above to make the horse body sore.

    Shoeing which encourages "pretty" and "dainty" small feet, usually.

    Making the horse FAT on purpose, yes.

    Starting horses as young as 18 months and longeing them far too much for their little legs, yes.

    Not caring if horses are useable past futurity age, yes.

    But that is, unfortunately, a common "training" methodology seen in breed shows. There are also good trainers - with more of them moving toward reining and other disciplines which involve a horse actually using its body nicely, where the lower head position is more a dressage-ish long and low than a dump onto the forehand. Somehow this individual had a super skill at doing what all the faux trainers did to try to train, and could turn the horses into complete cripples very quickly. Now the "training" has advanced to "make sure you have the horse sideways when you canter!" Yes, intentionally teaching horses to canter like a crab.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    When I go to the Quarter Horse Congress and not see crippled moving horses in the warm-up arenas, I'll know things have changed.
    I don't go to Congress anymore because it was so bad OVERALL, seeing all the lamenesses. These are supposed to be "Best of the Best", and they all are gimping along. So sad to see, but I guess it speaks well of the breed for their pain tolerance levels.

    Bluey, I am sure there are a lot of nice QH folks working on stuff. But what we see far from Texas is just bad in the lameness areas. A lot is just basic bad hoof care, trimming too short, because "that is the style". Horse is lame in EVERY foot, minces along because of the pain. Couldn't move faster unless you were beating him and it hurt more than his feet do.

    Have you looked at those Judging videos? Maybe you could borrow a set to view. The speaker on there uses the horse terms like tracking up, collection, giving to the bit, but obviously hasn't a clue what terms mean by the horse "demonstrating" the action so very badly. Tracking up horse never could get a hind leg in front of his FLANKS, let alone under his belly or beyond the front hoof!! His rump is only coming along because it is tied on. Scary, because these DVDs are what the next generation of horse users are learning from!!

    At clinics I have attended given by QH folks, I am often the only "other breed" horse there. My horse walks along with a normal stride, over reach of about 10 inches, and no, he wasn't gaited. This is his regular walk, and we are PASSING the cantering QHs easily. With a little work, I can get him doing a QH shuffle, though he is still overstriding at the trot, and a very nice slow, TRUE canter. I am not going to make him ruin his gaits, but I enjoy having the throttle in gait adjustability there for use. The other horses in the clinic have various "issues" and won't move like normal horses even when not working. If you ask, most have lots of points in various classes, often are champions in their areas.

    The worst part is that almost NONE of the riders can see any problem in how their horses move, can't detect lameness on their horse or anyone elses. Yep they ALL notice my horse, with his FORWARD movement, proportionate sized hooves to his large body, WILLINGNESS to do as requested, and continued enthusiasm over several days. He is a nice horse, but I have 5 more just like him at home! No lame ones, big overstride, true gaits, WILLING to work with me. The scary part is that all these QH folks accept what they see and hear from "big names" as being normal and acceptable, not cruel. "That is how QH is supposed to go" as explanations for lameness issues.

    Kind of shakes down to ignorant folks (even if they won the Worlds) unwilling to change things to be better horse owners, improve their knowledge of the animals. They "pay the Trainer to do that hard stuff". Most are just pet owners, shouldn't be allowed to have horses but they support the industry. Me, I am just bitter seeing nice young horses ruined year after year, working lives often ended by 7-8 yrs old. Retire or give away that horse, get a new one to ruin, keeps the cycle going.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodhors View Post
    I don't go to Congress anymore because it was so bad OVERALL, seeing all the lamenesses. These are supposed to be "Best of the Best", and they all are gimping along. So sad to see, but I guess it speaks well of the breed for their pain tolerance levels.

    Bluey, I am sure there are a lot of nice QH folks working on stuff. But what we see far from Texas is just bad in the lameness areas. A lot is just basic bad hoof care, trimming too short, because "that is the style". Horse is lame in EVERY foot, minces along because of the pain. Couldn't move faster unless you were beating him and it hurt more than his feet do.

    Have you looked at those Judging videos? Maybe you could borrow a set to view. The speaker on there uses the horse terms like tracking up, collection, giving to the bit, but obviously hasn't a clue what terms mean by the horse "demonstrating" the action so very badly. Tracking up horse never could get a hind leg in front of his FLANKS, let alone under his belly or beyond the front hoof!! His rump is only coming along because it is tied on. Scary, because these DVDs are what the next generation of horse users are learning from!!

    At clinics I have attended given by QH folks, I am often the only "other breed" horse there. My horse walks along with a normal stride, over reach of about 10 inches, and no, he wasn't gaited. This is his regular walk, and we are PASSING the cantering QHs easily. With a little work, I can get him doing a QH shuffle, though he is still overstriding at the trot, and a very nice slow, TRUE canter. I am not going to make him ruin his gaits, but I enjoy having the throttle in gait adjustability there for use. The other horses in the clinic have various "issues" and won't move like normal horses even when not working. If you ask, most have lots of points in various classes, often are champions in their areas.

    The worst part is that almost NONE of the riders can see any problem in how their horses move, can't detect lameness on their horse or anyone elses. Yep they ALL notice my horse, with his FORWARD movement, proportionate sized hooves to his large body, WILLINGNESS to do as requested, and continued enthusiasm over several days. He is a nice horse, but I have 5 more just like him at home! No lame ones, big overstride, true gaits, WILLING to work with me. The scary part is that all these QH folks accept what they see and hear from "big names" as being normal and acceptable, not cruel. "That is how QH is supposed to go" as explanations for lameness issues.

    Kind of shakes down to ignorant folks (even if they won the Worlds) unwilling to change things to be better horse owners, improve their knowledge of the animals. They "pay the Trainer to do that hard stuff". Most are just pet owners, shouldn't be allowed to have horses but they support the industry. Me, I am just bitter seeing nice young horses ruined year after year, working lives often ended by 7-8 yrs old. Retire or give away that horse, get a new one to ruin, keeps the cycle going.
    You do realize that you are talking about just one very small part of what all people do with AQHA horses?

    Seems that you are going to some functions where some quarter horses compete, with a horse of another breed, with different characteristics for that competition.
    No wonder you feel like a square peg in a round hole there.

    I consider those saddlebred horses with their absurd gaits and cut tails strange, to say the least and I would not think to go there with one of my ranch horses and try to emulate them, or expect them to look like my horses.

    I agree many to go extremes and thru fads to do this and that with their horses, in anything we do.
    I have seen terrible jumping classes, with horrible riding, even at the olympic level, but don't think that is all there is to jumping.

    There is right now a very cute paint horse for sale as a western pleasure horse.
    If you watch the video, you wonder how that crawling, crippled looking horse even gets around.
    The first time I saw paso finos I though those were horribly crippled horses, the way they moved.
    Guess what, that is the way all of them move.

    If you want to participate where horses do what you want them to do, you really need to look into what your horse's breed is doing and see if that will meet your expectations any better.



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