[convertedhorselover]

Is the sales market for higher end hunters not as weak as the overall market, or is the sales market in general improved over the last 6 to 12 months.

The reason I ask is(obvious from the title) I am currently looking for a large junior hunter for my daughter. We do not have and endless source of funds, but are budgeting for approx $25,000 for a yearly lease. We are not expecting a winner at WEF or Ocala but I did think we could find a competitive A show horse in that budget. Many emails and phone calls have gone out with few responses.

I am not on this site to complain. I am very interested in this boards opinion. Are our expectations to high? Is it strictly a supply and demand issue? The 3'6" amateur rideable hunter is very desireable and, possibly, much more difficult to find.

[MySuperExAlter]

If the lease fee is 30% of the horses value, that would be a 83,000$ horse.. you should be able to find a competitive junior hunter for that price.

[BAC]

Are you working with a trainer? Usually they have their own contacts who can help you find something or point you towards someone else who might have something.

[AmmyByNature]

I agree that for $25k for a year lease you should be able to find something. I also second the question about if you are working with a trainer or not. This is exactly the case where you need to have your trainer work with you.

With leases even more than with sales, the owner needs to know that the horse is going into a program that will keep the horse in top mental and physical condition. After you are done with the horse, it's going back to the owner, and ESPECIALLY with a 3'6" horse, the owner needs to know that the horse isn't going to be ruined when they get it back. that's why you'll have a better chance getting responses with with your trainer involved.

[convertedhorselover]

Yes we are working with a trainer. They have been very active in the process.

I do think my favorite question when inquiring for a price on an animal is always "What is your budget?". When I am responding to an advertisement that says "inquire" I or the trainer inquires. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking our budget afterward, I just don't like the question before you advise me of the price of the horse we are inquiring about.

It seems to me that my response may affect the sellers response

[Elouise]

I agree that you "should" be able to find something in that price range, but based on the numbers I hear going around the show scene; I don't think it will easy to find a lease horse that can jump 3'6" at that rate. Not impossible.

You are going to have to find someone that is "off to college" and the parents are tired of paying the bills and perhaps the horse has some vetting issues and the parents are tired of paying the bills. No one is looking at it and the parents are tired of paying the bills. Get my drift.

Be prepared to negotiate to get your price.

Good luck!

[dags]

Yes we are working with a trainer. They have been very active in the process.

I do think my favorite question when inquiring for a price on an animal is always "What is your budget?". When I am responding to an advertisement that says "inquire" I or the trainer inquires. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking our budget afterward, I just don't like the question before you advise me of the price of the horse we are inquiring about.

It seems to me that my response may affect the sellers response

I know it's tempting to think this, and while I'm sure it does happen, there is a legitimate reason for inquiring if you are even in the right ballpark for a horse before disclosing a price. Sellers have a lot of strangers approaching them from the internet these days - they could be kids, gossip-mongers, trouble-makers, or legitimately interested parties. You never know. Only one of those inquiries needs to know the price of the horse, and that may be what they are trying to figure out before disclosing.

[marginall]

I agree. If you call to inquire about the price as instructed by the seller and they want to know my budget first, tell them to call you when they figure out what the asking price is. If you call a real estate office from a sign you see outside a house, they tell you the price. Sellers, set one price for your horse. If it's negotiable, negotiate when you have a legitimate buyer/leaser.

[Cannonball]

I know it's tempting to think this, and while I'm sure it does happen, there is a legitimate reason for inquiring if you are even in the right ballpark for a horse before disclosing a price. Sellers have a lot of strangers approaching them from the internet these days - they could be kids, gossip-mongers, trouble-makers, or legitimately interested parties. You never know. Only one of those inquiries needs to know the price of the horse, and that may be what they are trying to figure out before disclosing.

Though I understand what you are saying. I just don't get why it would matter who knew the price or why the price is a secret. What harm can come from someone knowing the price of a horse you are trying to sell. If it has a different price for different people then quote the higher price to the unknown caller. If later they turn out to be someone you would sell to for less then lower the price. And if you don't want to have to go to all that trouble just give the person asking the price.

[marginall]

Dags, I get your point but there's no reason for a price to be secret. All this paranoia in just one of the many contributing factors making for a sketchy market place. If my horse is selling for $75,000 then everyone can know. What advantage is it to me to have people calling me and my trainer to find out? I waste my own time by asking people to inquire.

In what other market can you do this?!

[TSWJB]

I agree. If you call to inquire about the price as instructed by the seller and they want to know my budget first, tell them to call you when they figure out what the asking price is. If you call a real estate office from a sign you see outside a house, they tell you the price. Sellers, set one price for your horse. If it's negotiable, negotiate when you have a legitimate buyer/leaser.

its because alot of horses are priced at what the person has to spend. it happens all the time. if you have 25k to spend, that is the price. if you have 35k to spend that is the price.

[SquishTheBunny]

What about looking at the amateur owner horses?

I had a nice, competitive 3'6 hunter for sale just a bit above your lease budget. I ended up leasing him out to a 3' rider instead, but he would have easily been competitive enough in the large juniors for the over fences portion.

[Tapperjockey]

Yes we are working with a trainer. They have been very active in the process.

I do think my favorite question when inquiring for a price on an animal is always "What is your budget?". When I am responding to an advertisement that says "inquire" I or the trainer inquires. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking our budget afterward, I just don't like the question before you advise me of the price of the horse we are inquiring about.

It seems to me that my response may affect the sellers response

I think I'd respond, that really depends on the horse

[marginall]

TSWJB, I get that's what sellers do but it makes for a sketchy market. Using your example, the price should be 35k negotiable. The seller speaks to the buyer's trainer and says, "We are asking 35k, I understand your buyer's top is 25k, we are negotiable and your buyer should come look at the horse." The way that sellers go about it is silly, makes everyone on both sides paranoid and distrustful.

Cars and houses have asking prices, buyers have limits, they make offers, some sellers are negotiable, some aren't. This is how the real world works. The horse world won't change but it would be nice if it did.

[dags]

Not everyone is comfortable with "public" prices at these dollar amounts, it is really only the business of the Seller and the person that buys the horse. And many of those buyers prefer the amount they paid not be common knowledge. These are luxury items, not houses. It may be an "old money" mentality, but such discretion does exist.

Furthermore, no other market has 14 y.o.s masquerading as adults that then turn around and post "OMG!!1! He's $xxxxxx!" along with the horse's picture on facebook.

[convertedhorselover]

If someone is interested in a Mercedes, I would classify that as a luxury item. If that same person called a dealership and asked the price of the latest model, and the sales representative responded by asking the buyer their budget I am guessing the consultant might hear a dial tone very quickly.

If you advertise the price as "inquire" expect people to inquire and these individuals are probably going to want an answer.

[osgoka01]

Converted- Where are you located?

[marginall]

Exactly, converted. High end cars, watches, handbags, $5m houses are all luxury items and prices are public information. It's not a secret. If a person can afford a $250k horse, everyone who knows them knows they have money. And if you buy a $10k horse people know you don't have big bucks. The 14 y/o that posts about finding out the price of the horse wouldn't bother if it was publicly advertised. They don't post, "OMG, Suzie's parents bought a Mercedes SUV, that costs $60k!!!" The kid is psyched b/c they found out a "secret." Remove the secrecy and this behavior goes away.

[RockinHorse]

Not everyone is comfortable with "public" prices at these dollar amounts, it is really only the business of the Seller and the person that buys the horse. And many of those buyers prefer the amount they paid not be common knowledge. These are luxury items, not houses. It may be an "old money" mentality, but such discretion does exist.

Furthermore, no other market has 14 y.o.s masquerading as adults that then turn around and post "OMG!!1! He's $xxxxxx!" along with the horse's picture on facebook.

Just because you know the asking price, doesn't mean you know what the amount paid actually was

[dags]

If someone is interested in a Mercedes, I would classify that as a luxury item. If that same person called a dealership and asked the price of the latest model, and the sales representative responded by asking the buyer their budget I am guessing the consultant might hear a dial tone very quickly.

If you advertise the price as "inquire" expect people to inquire and these individuals are probably going to want an answer.

I'd classify it as a car, and then get into a discussion as to whether a car is considered a luxury or a necessity in America (a "discussion" I have indeed been in!).

A mansion is still a house, a mercedes is still a car. They both have published prices, they also both have blue-books and calculable market value.

Horses do not.

I'm not saying that no one's out to take your money, I'm saying not everyone is out to take your money. There is a perfectly legitimate reason why a seller might inquire what your budget is, I'm assuming alongside a lot of other questions. If they have NO other question but "what's in your wallet?" then yes, run.

As to your original question, you have plenty of money to get "a 3'6" horse" and it does not sound like your expectations are too high in terms of competitiveness. How many years do you plan to keep leasing? Is it a case that you need to spread a large sum out over a few years and that is why you are looking for a lease? Because in this current market I think your money will go further as a purchase.

For the range you are looking in the lease horse is going to be.... average as a 3'6" horse, or has something that dings the price down. Probably an ol' do-gooder, which can be really hard to find because there's usually a list of people it would suit and they never even hit the market.

Alternatively, at this curious price range (which would be asking price around $75K), we have good horses that are getting ready to move up to 3'6", and those aren't usually lease-able to junior riders. It's just not such a great idea for either party.

I'd venture to guess you're in a price range that's kind of a no-mans land right now, add also that leasing out Junior Hunters isn't as common as leasing out, say, ponies or 3' horses. A good, solid 3'6" horse is probably going to lease out for a bit more than you have, and those do-gooders? You can purchase a lot of those in this market for $60K or less.
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