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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
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    NorthEast
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    24,490

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    I just don't like to hear the Disneyesque romanticizing about predator animals. Or sometimes it's reality as opposed to Disney. I would hazard a guess that if someone in your family were killed or threatened by a predator you might develop a slightly healthier attitude but maybe you would just say, "oh geez, we are in their territory". Been there, done that. Probably more than the average person. As both a rehabber and conservationist for carnivores, specializing in canids/coyotes for the last 20 years, it's kind of expected with the job. Greenie Fruitloops. Ask any of the honest wildlife managers in the areas where coyotes roam how many sheep, goats, lambs and calves, that are lost. If I give an honest number and that doesn't sound impressive or scary enough does that make me dishonest? If they get numerous enough and hungry enough, they will lunch on bigger meat packages and change their habits. That is how they have survived as predator animals do. Of all the natural wildlife left...the carnivores are always the first to die off and/or migrate out of an area. Not herbivores, carnivores.
    An animal can only hunt the size prey it is capable of eating. Coyote will take down compromised whitetail. Calves, sure if they get the opportunity and it's close to newborn. Smallish goats, newborn sheep, chickens, yorkies, chihuahuas...most certainly.

    Predators are absolutely necessary for a healthy ecosystem and environment. 100% necessary, non-optional. Livestock, pets? Not at all. Our want to live in rural areas does not ever trump erradicating everything that lives there that we don't approve of.

    Oddly enough, we have buttloads of dairy farms, goat farms, chicken farms, rural residents and horse properties that have never had issues with coyotes or felt a need to destroy wildlife.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2007
    Posts
    3,928

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    I guess I'm one of those greenie fruitloops. I have no qualms about killing wild animals to protect myself or my animals, but I for one like having them around. Indiscriminately killing off species really screws up the ecosystem and can lead to unintended consequences. Plus, I just love true wild spaces. We have all kinds of predators here including mountain lions, bears, coyotes, bobcats, hawks, owls...you get the idea.

    I have been threatened by a mountain lion when I was alone, on foot and unarmed. I've had some run-ins with coyotes as well, and once managed to walk down a path and get between a mama black bear and her cubs (that was probably the scariest, she was definitely unhappy and I was quite lucky she didn't attack me). So I'm aware of how dangerous wildlife can be and I don't imagine it to be much like Disney. But, well...I was in their territory.

    I just like wild spaces, and I like that we have ones that are still truly wild. If that makes me a greenie fruitloop, guilty as charged.

    And I should add that in all my time out here in the wild west, I've heard of exactly one horse attacked by a mountain lion (she lived), and a few smaller livestock killed by coyotes (chickens, sheep, goats). I've heard and seen plenty killed by domesticated dogs, though. I've also never lost a pet to them even though we do have tons of coyotes and they do eat small animals, because I keep my dogs under my control when they're outside. It really isn't that hard to live with wildlife IMO.



  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    5,490

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    ha, reminds me, when I was raising my girls, I lived in a suburband neighborhood bordering on farmland and state forest. The people in the neighborhood seemed clueless about wildlife - theywould get cats, let them out, and after a few weeks they would dissapear, and they'd get another one, and it too would dissapear. I tried to tell them about the coyotes and how they eat small dogs and cats, but no one believed there were any. Being a horse person and out and about on my property alot, I saw them all the time and could only shake my head. Eventually I stopped trying to tell them that if they wanted to keep their cat, they had to bring it in at night, etc. but I did have my daughter make up a fun bumper sticker at school:

    Proud Suburban Mom
    supporting the coyote population, one cat at a time!
    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.



  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2003
    Location
    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
    Posts
    6,835

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    I guess I'm a fruit loop (and golly, your sugar coated name calling is...unusual for COTH!!).

    If I get eaten by a predator large enough to attack and eat me, then I'm in their space and I'm prey. Thankfully for my "green fruit loop self", I've never really ventured into that territory. I figure if I stay out of Alaska in the spring, Great White infested waters (I don't like my odds...isn't it something like 7 people a year taken by sharks!?), the African Savannah, cougar-filled high country, and Siberia, I'll be good to go! And, if a family member were to go that way, I don't think I'd start packing heat and popping off predators the first chance I got. Heck, depending on who it is and how they go, it might be a financial wind fall for me (just kidding..lest you worry about my Fruit Loopness)

    I was attacked by a nesting pair of Canada geese once while trail riding. Sadly, I didn't bring my shotgun that time. Rats.

    How, exactly, do the "Brain Dead" (my friends on the island will undoubtedly find that amusing) feed the owls?? Tie out mice with teeny tiny hobbles?

    What are the statistics on the number of Americans killed by predators? Anyone?
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!



  5. #65
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Posts
    3,589

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mah Navu View Post
    I've wondered about this also, as we board our horses on a farm way up in the mountains of PA...

    Have been there a year and haven't seen nor heard a coyote yet, neither has the neighbor, who has lived there 25 yrs. so if there are coyotes in this area, they are rare....

    But there have been a few bobcats sighted...over the years.

    Which worries me.... I've heard that coyotes are timid, in general.

    Bobcats.....not so much.
    We have loads of coyotes and bobcats. The coyotes howl/yip at night - it's spooky, but for all the noise we hardly ever see them. I have a great photo of a bobcat sitting in my front yard the other week. They are totally harmless unless you are a rabbit or chicken. They tend to only be around 20lbs so not likely to do too much harm, smaller than your average mid-size dog.



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2007
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    3,928

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherRound View Post
    ha, reminds me, when I was raising my girls, I lived in a suburband neighborhood bordering on farmland and state forest. The people in the neighborhood seemed clueless about wildlife - theywould get cats, let them out, and after a few weeks they would dissapear, and they'd get another one, and it too would dissapear. I tried to tell them about the coyotes and how they eat small dogs and cats, but no one believed there were any. Being a horse person and out and about on my property alot, I saw them all the time and could only shake my head. Eventually I stopped trying to tell them that if they wanted to keep their cat, they had to bring it in at night, etc. but I did have my daughter make up a fun bumper sticker at school:

    Proud Suburban Mom
    supporting the coyote population, one cat at a time!
    I've seen that saying before and it cracks me up.

    We have so many predators here that there isn't even much of a feral cat population. I don't keep barn cats because they don't last long at all. I have two pet cats that are indoors-only, both because of the risk of predation and because cats are really terribly hard on the ecosystem and our desert one is very fragile. I don't want my cats killing songbirds or otherwise preying on critters they shouldn't be, and since they're cats they probably would.

    Most of my neighbors think I'm crazy for keeping them in but hey, I'm not the one who needs a new cat every few months. Wasn't it Einstein who said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results?



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Calamber, there is real irony in the contrast between your posts and your signature line.

    I've encountered coyotes a number of times while in the woods, on foot, with my dogs, and never once had a problem.

    Coyotes will not bother adult horses, especially when they're in a group. One of the reasons that the wild horse population has become an overpopulation in many areas is that they have very few natural predators.

    A newborn calf, foal, goat or sheep could be taken by a family group, I suppose, but it's very unlikely.

    And while coyotes certainly do take cats, I suspect that a great many more of the cats who"never came home" were hit by cars than were eaten by coyotes.



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