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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
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    1,835

    Default what is the difference: eventer talent and jumper talent

    I will have a Irish Draught Sport Horse mare to breed this year and she has an offspring that has jumper points in Ireland. Her sire is Diamond Lad who is both an upper level eventer sire and jumper sire. What are the differences when weighing qualities of stallions? Most stallions have not had offspring pointed for upper level eventing so I need to consider their qualities that will translate to produce a successful eventer. What are those qualities? How are they different for an upper level eventer or an upper level jumper? Thanks PatO



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    18,560

    Default

    Stamina; bravery; brain--problem solver; ability to do 4th level dressage; ability to switch from XC jumping technique to SJ technique.

    Stamina is obvious. Bravery because all of the jumps in show jumping are approximately the same, while XC jumps and the terrain are all different--except for skinnies and corners, but even then the terrain is different. You just can't train a XC horse for all the possible combinations and permutations that are presented, so the horse has to be brave enough to go into situations that it's never seen before and trust the rider. brain--problem solver--a show jumping course lasts only 90 seconds or so and is on groomed surfaces. The eventer has to go full bore for up to eleven minutes over all sorts of terrain and obstacles, and things can and do go very wrong because of rider error. The horse has to be, IMO, an independent thinker and partner in the run. That's the famous fifth leg. An event horse who will jump anything regardless of how it's presented is dangerous. The ability to do beginning 4th level dressage well is a given at the top level and that requires a brain that can tolerate dressage training at that level as well as being able to switch between jumping techniques. SJers never jump out of a true gallop. The spaces that they perform in are too small for that, and in many cases the jumps too high and the courses very technical. Now days they canter, maybe even hand gallop, a few strides, collect (wind the spring), then explode over the jump. Not at all the same in XC. But the horse also has to be able to utilize SJ technique in the SJ phase.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,121

    Default

    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    An American Living In Ireland
    Posts
    5,658

    Default

    Pat, it's not uncommon here for Eventers to have some SJ points. At a couple of shows last year I was impressed by the Eventers that turned up with their chilled out babies having some easy courses to jump. All part of their well rounded schooling. I agree with all the things Viney says about what makes a good eventer. SJ's to a point have to be a little brave. Nothing worse than watching a horse in a ring spooking and sucking back at everything. And when you put in a tricky line, liverpool's, and walls it's nice to see a horse that never hesitates and just goes where you point. A SJ has to have that extra carefulness so poles don't come down, but sometimes this makes them ill suited for eventing. The bravery needed in Eventing over the solid fences is something you can never teach. They have it or they don't. The tricky part in breeding here in Ireland is anything with a heavy dose of blood is seen as an Eventer. They don't really want to know about it for jumping unless you jump the horse yourself. I have horse's out of a TB mare so it's assumed I should go the eventing route. It's not my thing. Maybe they would be good at it. I think the youngest one out of my mare is going that route per new owners but that's a while off.

    As for you, if you want to breed an Eventer than you know you will need a heavy dose of blood for the upper levels. A draught horse without the required blood is a hunter or lower levels. People can argue about that all they like but with an odd exception there are very few heavy horses doing the upper levels in Eventing.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    633

    Cool

    In today's specialty world, these are two different horses. Other than they both jump fences, they are worlds apart. Eventers need TB blood. They need to be brave and have lots of stamina. They need to run and run and never tire of running. Show jumpers need to be cat like athletic. They only go for maybe 80 seconds over a course of no more than 17 jumps +/-. They must be technical, powerful, scopey and careful. Eventers need to be schooled in dressage at least up a couple levels. Show jumpers are best only broke to "cowboy dressage". You want them to think for themselves, and not to wait to be told what to do like the way dressage horses are.

    As I said, two different horses. And two different breeding pedigrees for the successful ones.



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