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  1. #1
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    Default Video Comparison: Working Hind End vs. Nonworking hind end

    I took dressage lessons last summer on my jumper and learned how to get him collected and going MUCH better but I always have to work hard at getting him to really work from behind. In simple terms, I think the point is to get him to push from the hind end instead of pulling himself forward with the front end (is this correct?). I think for the most part I can feel him when he works better and we've been doing a ton of flatwork. But when I watch a video of me riding him, I can't tell if he's really using his hind end or not. So...

    Could any of you post some videos for me? One showing a horse using his hind end properly, and one showing a horse not using his hind end properly? Since you guys are much more knowledgable on this.
    Last edited by Crown Royal; Feb. 10, 2012 at 04:06 PM.



  2. #2
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    Tracking up doesn't necessarily mean using the hind end.

    Valegro and Wizard at the World Dressage Masters are great examples of using the hind end for the most part. My internet's crawling or I'd google them myself.

    While I can think of horses I know have done both, even if I were currently able to get videos to run well to do a search I'd be hesitant to post the negatives... maybe someone will have their own videos they're willing to post.


    (Who am I kidding? This is COTH... plenty of people are willing to post other people.)
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by netg View Post
    Tracking up doesn't necessarily mean using the hind end.
    This is so important for people to think about. My Hanoverian mare who had mild neurological deficits, had amazing movement and a huge overtrack at the walk and the trot. She never felt as though she was going anywhere...

    My Connemara pony barely overtracks if at all, yet she has an incredibly powerful hind end and uses it beautifully. It's the most amazing feeling of power, effortlessly covering the ground.

    If you were to just watch them and the mechanics of their hind legs you would think the Hanoverian was using herself more.

    It was a big lesson for me, and a big reason I can't quite get myself to buy a horse without sitting on it first.



  4. #4
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    follow the training scale. carrying (aka collection) doenst happen until you have

    rhythm/relaxation
    suppleness/contact (via bending and bended lines)
    forward/throughness
    then collection/straightness/impulsion

    the best way to tell is by the feel.... is the horse handy? do you feel like you could do anything? do you have power at your disposal?



  5. #5
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    Yes, overtrack is definitely not an indicator of using the hind end. My Oldenburg overtracks without even thinking about it, but he's built with a shorter back and long legs, so just by his sheer structure he overtracks. However, I can FEEL when he's using his hind end and when he's not. When he's using himself, like MBM said you can feel the power at your disposal, and his trot gets much more cadence. He also breathes differently. He holds his breath and clenches his whole body when he's not using himself, or conversely he also could just be dragging himself around and barely moving if he's in a lazy mood and then his breath gets raspy. But when he starts using himself, his breath comes from a much deeper place, if you know what I mean. He snorts and blows, and breathes from his "center". His barrel fills up my leg and his back feels fuller under my seat.
    Last edited by WBLover; Feb. 10, 2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: spelling



  6. #6
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    I still struggle with this at times - I think I'm feeling it, but am not always sure. I've read that when your horse invites you to sit the trot - you've got it - is that at least a fairly accurate assumption?

    MBM - I like your analogy of the horse being handy - that makes a lot of sense to me.
    "I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a thoroughbred horse." -- John Galsworthy



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Horse View Post
    I still struggle with this at times - I think I'm feeling it, but am not always sure. I've read that when your horse invites you to sit the trot - you've got it - is that at least a fairly accurate assumption?

    MBM - I like your analogy of the horse being handy - that makes a lot of sense to me.
    well... as someone who's just mastering sitting trot, on a nice smooth horse, if I sit and it's easy, she's working more off her hind end. If I get jounced around, or she slows to a jog, we're not there yet.

    The tough test for me -- the one that's *really* hard to pass -- is to transition from canter to sitting trot without *any* posting.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by 1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    well... as someone who's just mastering sitting trot, on a nice smooth horse, if I sit and it's easy, she's working more off her hind end. If I get jounced around, or she slows to a jog, we're not there yet.

    The tough test for me -- the one that's *really* hard to pass -- is to transition from canter to sitting trot without *any* posting.
    Still working on our sitting trot as well. I don't have the transition problem - our problem seems to be getting the right tempo at the canter . . . "someone" still occassionally thinks canter means hand gallop!
    "I am still under the impression that there is nothing alive quite so beautiful as a thoroughbred horse." -- John Galsworthy



  9. #9
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    At the trot I want to see hocks that look like they are going around in a circle. We used to call them driving hocks
    I wasn't always a Smurf
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    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Horse View Post
    I still struggle with this at times - I think I'm feeling it, but am not always sure. I've read that when your horse invites you to sit the trot - you've got it - is that at least a fairly accurate assumption?
    yes. the feeling is quite unique and you will know when you are there.



  11. #11
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    Have your trainer walk around behind you with a whip pointed towards your horses hind end. When she shakes the whip, you will feel the hind end come under you. The key is to "keep" the hind end under you. It's an unmistakable feeling.
    Cowgirl Up!



  12. #12
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    Thanks guys...I didn't mean to get into a discussion of what tracking up is...that part wasn't important just a mistaken term I guess.

    I do know what the training scale is and my lovely TB has really gotten it down I believe. I just got back from riding him and BOY is he NICE! Just soft, relaxed, big but steady trot that feels like it's taking it's time getting where it needs to go without any freight train feeling, more of a pushing forward. His neck is curved and he accepts the bit and I can feel his mouth, but he's not pulling on me, just a steady feel of him holding himself. He is very very flexible and I feel like I can push him body anywhere I want it and he doesn't suck back or resist, he just moves wherever I want with that contained energy and power. I can post the trot and that's nice, but even better I can just sit and stay with it and be comfortable. I love it! I just don't know if he could use his hind end better or not?

    Still, videos comparing, if possible, would be fantastic!



  13. #13
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    Very interesting discussion!!! I just really started thinking about this after an Alfredo Hernandez clinic that we took my horse to this weekend. This was our first clinic with him and my mare's first attempts at pi/pa

    Check out the video at around the 6 minute 30 second mark:


    http://youtu.be/pcQfdOX4UbI

    I think Alfredo does a wonderful job explaining it!



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASBnTX View Post
    Very interesting discussion!!! I just really started thinking about this after an Alfredo Hernandez clinic that we took my horse to this weekend. This was our first clinic with him and my mare's first attempts at pi/pa

    Check out the video at around the 6 minute 30 second mark:


    http://youtu.be/pcQfdOX4UbI

    I think Alfredo does a wonderful job explaining it!
    Great video! Beautiful horse too!
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  15. #15
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    Op you'd have to start with a good consistent connection with half halts that are being responded to nicely to begin to ask a horse to really use their hind.

    I'll have to look at some videos to find something lower level that shows the start of using the rear more definitely.

    Tracking up absolutely is an okay term, as most judges in the lower levels will look at that an focus on it until you are asked for a bit of collection THEN you will be asked to have some bend in the joints as well.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  16. #16
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    OP why don't you just post your video and see if folks think he's using his back end
    I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASBnTX View Post
    Very interesting discussion!!! I just really started thinking about this after an Alfredo Hernandez clinic that we took my horse to this weekend. This was our first clinic with him and my mare's first attempts at pi/pa

    Check out the video at around the 6 minute 30 second mark:


    http://youtu.be/pcQfdOX4UbI

    I think Alfredo does a wonderful job explaining it!
    Of topic I played a little in hand today and my mare proceeded to run me over when I tried it down the wall like you guys were doing

    I think I need more practice and need to watch the video more lol
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSprats Mom View Post
    OP why don't you just post your video and see if folks think he's using his back end
    Great idea!
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSprats Mom View Post
    OP why don't you just post your video and see if folks think he's using his back end
    I would if I had a recent video The only one I have is an old one that he is apparently not using his hind end in. He goes much better now and feels like he has a lot more contained power, but I don't have a video of him. I'll have to try to eventually get one and post it on here though.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    yes. the feeling is quite unique and you will know when you are there.
    I love all the analogies people have been using! mbm's 'does he feel handy?' and WBLover's 'back fuller under my seat' especially

    (also agree with netg that Valegro and Wizard had 'it')

    I'm not sure a video is going to be as useful as going for a feeling.

    when I went fishing with my dad as a kid, I'd always ask: 'when will I know if I have a fish?' and he would say: 'you'll know.' sure enough the first time I caught one, I knew.

    I think it's a little bit same with a horse really being through and working off their hind end: you'll know when you have it, don't worry-mbm is right!



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