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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2012
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    29

    Default Hmm...So, what R U being charged weekly @ Thermal 4 Hay,Feed,Bedding? $400-$500 wkly?

    How much are you being charged for hay, grain, and bedding each week at Thermal? What do you think is reasonable?? Is $500 per week for hay, grain, and bedding reasonable to you or would you be headpalming? (stall and all other fees already paid for). Should they be marking it way up? What does 'trainer split' really truly honestly mean anyway?

    Based on actual local cost per bale of hay that are easy to find, $60 per week would be really high (since I know exactly what horse has eaten every day of his life since born here, and 30# of hay per day is way more than he'd ever eat). Local shavings are $11 per bag 8 cu ft.

    Is it common for trainers roll their expenses of having their own personal horses their onto the bills of the client without telling them, or is this not how it is done?

    Yes, we have asked for clarification of charges but are not getting the answers!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2003
    Location
    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
    Posts
    6,694

    Default

    Not realistic at all, IMO. Someone is making a crap load of profit off those charges. Yet another reason I could never, ever afford to show at that level if that is standard
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
    Posts
    9,627

    Default

    Trainer split could be feed + bedding + your share of (groom and tack stalls + paddocks + RV docking + preferred seating). I am looking at the Thermal feed order form that is in the premium but it (as is typical) doesn't include any fees.

    For just feed and bedding that seems pretty high but I could see the bedding easily going over $100.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,209

    Default

    Our splits usually include tack/grooming stalls/paddocks along with bedding and hay.just nicely ask your trainer for a breakdown--things add up quickly--hay was $17 a bale in Jax last year!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2012
    Posts
    29

    Default

    day fees paid for
    stall paid for
    stall cleaning paid for
    groom paid for
    grooming stalls paid for
    shipping paid for
    trainer lodging paid for

    These hay, grain, bedding charge is just for 7 days. I already paid even more for the first week. They said that first weeks charge included the start up stall costs, where they used about 10 bags of bedding the first week to set up. They said they now use less bedding each week after setting up stall. Ten (10) bags?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2003
    Location
    WA, Land of the damp Thongpend
    Posts
    2,451

    Default

    Is there a great deal of sod and plants for the set up? Landscaping might be in there too.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
    Posts
    9,627

    Default

    Yes, ten bags is pretty typical. The bags are pretty small. Not quite as small as what they sell for bedding hamsters but definitely not as large as what you'd typically get at a feed store.
    Last edited by Peggy; Feb. 6, 2012 at 06:15 PM. Reason: clarification (matching terms)
    The Evil Chem Prof



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2012
    Posts
    29

    Default

    I did already nicely ask trainer for breakdown. Twice.

    Hay at Thermal is $18 for 60 pound bales. They are getting it off site. It was easy to find out that the local hay dealer sells it for $22 for 100 pounds. Even if my horse ate 30 pounds per day (NOT), that would be 210 pounds, or $46.20 in hay per week. My $60 in hay was allowing for a bit of mark up and being generous (as saying my horse is eating 30 pounds per day is being way generous).

    Only my highlights are kind of blonde. The rest is pay dirt brown.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2012
    Posts
    29

    Default

    The shavings bales I saw looked big/normal. The $11 off site ones are 8 cu ft.

    Yes there is some sod and plants. That should have been in the first weeks even bigger charge when they got set up?



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2012
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie19 View Post
    Our splits usually include tack/grooming stalls/paddocks along with bedding and hay.just nicely ask your trainer for a breakdown--things add up quickly--hay was $17 a bale in Jax last year!

    How long was the show that you went to last year? Half of show or whole? Do you recall what you paid?


    Right now, this is tracking to be $8,875 for just HALF OF THE SHOW! And, horse is only showing in a few classes the half of the show that he is slated to be there.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
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    Default

    Are they in the tent barns or the permanent barns? Tent stalls are ~10x10 whereas the permanent ones are 12x12 and would need more bedding. My ten-bag figure was for a 10x10 stall.

    Setup would include sod, plants, bark, wood/poles, and other assorted decorations that they had to buy but that would all be in your trainer's bill not your splits from the show office.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 5, 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Alt View Post
    How long was the show that you went to last year? Half of show or whole? Do you recall what you paid?


    Right now, this is tracking to be $8,875 for just HALF OF THE SHOW! And, horse is only showing in a few classes the half of the show that he is slated to be there.
    We were there for two weeks but I only had two of my own horses so I had room on the trailer to bring my own hay. After reading more of your posts something does sound a little off. Do you have paddocks? The paddocks we get in Ocala are $300/week each. Just trying to help figure it out!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    Keswick, VA
    Posts
    7,868

    Default

    A few things. I'm not familiar with Thermal, but I have done lots of supply split billing for winter circuits. Mainly because everyone else hated doing it, because it's time consuming and irritating, and no one is ever truly happy with the results.
    First, it is almost impossible to bill per particular horse use. It doesn't really save anyone money, and it will give you a giant headache. Particularly when you are splitting a large order while attempting to deal with feed store or show office staff, who vary widely in both competence and kindness. So hay need gets estimated by average amount per horse per day, and then the number of bales ordered gets divided per horse and then added up for the multi horse clients. This means you need to order a divisible number of bales, since your feed store isn't happy either just dividing the total money up into dollars and cents per client, nor happy if you end up with an odd number or 1/2 bale when you divide bales by clients.
    Secondly, a horse on a winter circuit in a stall all the time eats much more hay than it does at home. Average of 3/4 a bale to a bale per horse, or 1/2 a bale of the 100 lb three strings.
    Also, feed store may be charging delivery fee.
    Shavings, 10-15 bags per stall is average. We tend to start with 12 and add about 5 bags per week per horse. Again, total ordered divided by total number of horses.
    Grain is harder to make "fair". The best way for me to bill it out was to do a large order every few weeks, and bill one bag per horse. There are probably better ways, but I never found one that worked both with the store and the clients and fact that horses were coming in and out.
    So you may want to ask how often they order, since your first weeks bill could be paying for what they just paid out in supplies that will last through a few weeks. You may also want to ask, since you don't mention paying a supply fee, if your hay/bedding/feed number doesn't also include things like shampoo and vet wrap. Or, as mentioned, purchases for the set-up.
    This is part of why I liked billing clients' credit cards directly through the store. It's time consuming, in that you have to stand there and run 20 different cards, and you have to have your splits worked out beforehand. But it also doesn't require laying out any money and then rebilling it, and keeps the clients from questioning whether or not you are padding the bill. But I could also easily tell them exactly how many bales/bags/whatever they were paying for, since any method requires keeping track of each piece purchased.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2002
    Posts
    2,841

    Default

    When I used to show a lot, we were always charged for the trainers' kids' horses' expenses - yep, the bedding, stalls, everything. It was maddening but that is just the way it was. One reason I don't do it anymore.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2008
    Posts
    1,143

    Default

    WOW, okay, well, actually HOLY SH**. Sorry, eventer here, and so we don't do the whole flowers, and pots, and dirt, and, you get the idea, but this, this is totally out of whack. I am so glad we don't do those.

    We went to Colorado in June, and there was this jumper guy, and he put in SOD around his camper for the duration. He bought shrubs, and lawn ornaments, and fencing.....and the clients pay for that? WOW....just really, WOW. Umm, wow. I wouldn't, and couldn't even if I would....and I just wouldn't.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 5, 2007
    Posts
    1,704

    Default

    Bring your own feed.
    or
    Order your own feed and have it charged directly to your show bill. Ask to see the feed tags. They should have the name of the orderer.

    Much cheaper. Of course your trainer won't like it but it will be less expensive.

    Many barns don't bring feed to the show because that enables them to charge their boarders for feed ( with markup ) plus whatever they charged for board at home including feed.

    And yes, you'll be told that's the way it is. But everytime somebody agrees to be ripped off it keeps the practice going.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    5,717

    Default

    That only makes sense if you are paying feed/bedding for a whole bunch of the trainer's horses as well. No way that is all for one horse- even if that includes a paddock rental.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2011
    Posts
    210

    Default

    This sounds outrageous, the most I have ever paid for these items and that would be the first week of a multi-week show is around $200, and then it drops down to around $125 or so. We do mainly Classic Co shows (Gulfport, Atlanta) Brownland and other shows in the southeast. Would very much irritate me that the trainer or whoever did the splits won't give you a breakdown, could you ask the office for an explanation? Not giving you an explanation would also make me think they are not on the up and up.......Now watch me go to GP next week and get a $500 bill



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    Keswick, VA
    Posts
    7,868

    Default

    Many barns don't bring feed to the show because that enables them to charge their boarders for feed ( with markup ) plus whatever they charged for board at home including feed
    Or, you know, because loading, unloading, and having space to both transport and store enough feed and hay for a barn full of horses for weeks at a time is not particularly easy. You can bring enough hay in the peak of a semi for 15 horses for about 5 days, as long as you also have an equipment trailer. You can bring enough grain for about two weeks, saving everyone about a whopping $32 for the joy of lifting it twice and squeezing it into the trailer.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2010
    Posts
    25

    Default

    It must be a mistake of some sort. My "split" charges for one week were less than $250. And that included grooming stall split. I believe the HITS office does the splits for the trainers, so I would imagine they have made some sort of error...so maybe start there before assuming the worst about your trainer?



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