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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chall View Post
    Non dressage rider here. At the end, at the free walk was the rider pushing him with her seat or is his walk moving her that much?
    It doesn't look like pushing.

    I could not even sit that horse's WALK.
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.



  2. #102
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    Jun. 21, 2010
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    Sweden
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggplant_Dressing View Post
    Is there a news link about that little amazing tidbit of information? What would one do, sell the horse back? Continue to train and show? What about renaming the horse?
    http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...tallion-sezuan



  3. #103
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    Aug. 18, 2008
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    Super horse, super rider



  4. #104
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    Mar. 19, 2012
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    23

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    "Sezuan was licensed for breeding for the Danish Warmblood society, but because a remark on the OCD in his knee he was refused from the premium ring."

    Could this be potentially caused by the young training?



  5. #105
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    Dec. 7, 2007
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    151

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    Thank you for the video link again! I knew someone would have it. This horse is just to die for.



  6. #106
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    Jun. 20, 2009
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    Hunterdon County NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurphysHuman View Post
    "Sezuan was licensed for breeding for the Danish Warmblood society, but because a remark on the OCD in his knee he was refused from the premium ring."

    Could this be potentially caused by the young training?

    Not really. In my experience is mostly has to do with 'modern' types of horses that grow too fast. In other words, we are breeding horses with bodies that exceed the tolerances of the more 'original' DNA. Horses that are inbred, overbred, etc. Like dogs with squooshed in noses that can't breathe, or with hips so small they all have to be delivered by c-section.

    Too much exercise can exacerbate. But, in my experience, 'to much exercise' has meant leaving the stall. People may have to confine a foal or weanling to the stall because the grow too fast. Or otherwise limit their turnout. The ends of their bones are too fragile for them to be allowed to run around. I hate it.

    Sure, if you have a horse with OCD it may get worse when you start riding it. But that's not because it is bad to ride/work horses that age. It is because the breeding has created weakened individuals.

    "Researchers have determined that the problem is most pronounced in rapidly growing and maturing lines of horses and those that are fed diets that are overly high in protein, energy and fats often are associated with greater likelihood of OCD. This is also true if the mare is fed high levels of supplements and minerals during the pregnancy. An animal nutritionalist can evaluate your feeds and supplements and help you balance the feed for both mares and foals, especially in the larger breeds of horses."

    http://www.terrificpets.com/articles/102224665.asp



  7. #107
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    =



  8. #108
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    Oct. 25, 2005
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    1,735

    Cool The horse is amazing......and beautiful

    But I agree with the others that say he is WAY too young. Looks like upper level dressage is going the way of western pleasure. WP has proven 14.3 hand babies can't take the pounding, what do you think will happen to 16.3 hand babies? Very sad, everyone is in such a hurry these days.........



  9. #109
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    Dec. 17, 2007
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    Meadowview VA
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    Why, that looks like my herd coming up the hill for dinner!
    Esp the TWH.
    :-)



  10. #110
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    "Researchers have determined that the problem is most pronounced in rapidly growing and maturing lines of horses and those that are fed diets that are overly high in protein, energy and fats often are associated with greater likelihood of OCD. This is also true if the mare is fed high levels of supplements and minerals during the pregnancy. An animal nutritionalist can evaluate your feeds and supplements and help you balance the feed for both mares and foals, especially in the larger breeds of horses."

    http://www.terrificpets.com/articles/102224665.asp
    I have to take exception to the above bolded word - protein. I don't know the source of that article's research, but it's long been debunked that protein causes DOD issues, including OCD. In fact, there's a study out there that purposefully fed high protein diets to a rather large group of foals and couldn't remotely induce growth issues, OCD or otherwise

    Now, if by "overly high" they mean something like 300% the RDA, maybe, but in that case, the real issue is far more likely to be to many calories (energy), not the protein itself
    ______________________________
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  11. #111
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Montreal, Qc
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    Quote Originally Posted by paintjumper View Post
    But I agree with the others that say he is WAY too young. Looks like upper level dressage is going the way of western pleasure. WP has proven 14.3 hand babies can't take the pounding, what do you think will happen to 16.3 hand babies? Very sad, everyone is in such a hurry these days.........
    Well......comparing WP training and dressage training is quite a stretch.

    WP: 14hd horse started at 18months by a grown up man weighting around 200lbs. At 3yrs old the horse is show ready, if not competing already. Actually, there are 2yrs old classes. And lets not talk about some of the techniques used to 'frame' those horses.

    Shezuan had maybe 2-3 months of short training sessions max. before that video with a young lady who looks frankly quite far from 200lbs.
    Big circles, long stretches, open higher frame... Shezuan will be ready in no time for next year 4yrs old classes and those classes are nowhere half as demanding as what they do in WP classes.



  12. #112
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    Oct. 13, 2006
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    True. Dressage asks for obedience at wtc where as a two year old wp horse is demanded to show the same as a finished senior.

    On the other side many wp horses are finished at two years as Ive had one that was closed and done growing then. The hus horses I think have three year old futurities so gives them another year.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
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  13. #113
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    horses bones "close" from the ground up. so checking a horses knees is useless - because it tell you nothing about what is up higher in the skeletal structure. And, a vertical weight bearing surface like a leg is far more able to withstand the weight bearing as opposed to say the spine - which is not meant to carry weight and is, in fact one of the last structures to mature.

    i dont think what is shown in that vid is anything other than riding a youngster forward.... you can see how out of balance he is, they are not framing him other than asking him to try to stay up right...

    i think the young girl did a fine job....

    it is what happens after this that really matters - once contact is started - and if the horse is hand ridden or compressed into a tight frame...

    but this video doesn't show much at all other than the horses natural ability.

    fwiw, my bet is that you wont see many horses that move like this in the big arenas.... their movement is just too big to be easily controlled and collected.... but this is a perfect young horse class horse..... time will tell i guess.



  14. #114
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    fwiw, my bet is that you wont see many horses that move like this in the big arenas.... their movement is just too big to be easily controlled and collected.... but this is a perfect young horse class horse..... time will tell i guess.
    Fwiw, my bet is that Patrick Kittel bought the horse for a reason. Surely not just to do the young horse classes.

    What do you mean by 'just too big to be easily controlled and collected'? This horse is in Pro training and just been bought by a Pro Rider. This horse is certainly not an amateur ride but I doubt it will be 'difficult' for a Pro to control or to collect this one with all that great power from behind, an uphill comformation, a great neck and a short back! Those are the qualities you want in a high level dressage prospect.



  15. #115
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    <shrug>

    i guess we shall see. how many horses that move like this do you see in FEI classes?

    the consensus - at least from what i hear - is that they are great young horse class horses, are great young star stallion horses - but are not ending up in the FEI arena.

    And, i think they aren't being bred for that - they are being bred to make $$ as soon as possible....



  16. #116
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post

    "Researchers have determined that the problem is most pronounced in rapidly growing and maturing lines of horses and those that are fed diets that are overly high in protein, energy and fats often are associated with greater likelihood of OCD. This is also true if the mare is fed high levels of supplements and minerals during the pregnancy. An animal nutritionalist can evaluate your feeds and supplements and help you balance the feed for both mares and foals, especially in the larger breeds of horses."
    I too beg to differ. Protein is not the culprit. A major culprit behind OCD is too much energy in the diet, not protein and definitely not minerals. A correct diet for a fast growing foal will have sufficient protein, sufficient and properly balanced minerals and sufficient and digestible vitamins, with carbohydrates (energy) in the correct amount to let the foal grow properly, but not so much that it gets fat. Another serious culprit behind OCD is lack of turnout. The best regime is turnout 24/7 in a space that is large enough for the foal to truly stretch its legs and get plenty of exercise.

    I repeat, protein is not the culprit. Turnout is critically important. Hot house foals are prone to OCD, especially if the are genetically programmed to be very tall.



  17. #117
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    Jan. 8, 2003
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    I loved the INDOOR! LOL Yeah, the horse was nice too.
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  18. #118
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    Jun. 20, 2009
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    Hunterdon County NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home Again Farm View Post
    I repeat, protein is not the culprit. Turnout is critically important. Hot house foals are prone to OCD, especially if the are genetically programmed to be very tall.
    I didn't got to vet school, so I can only tell you what the vet's instructions were. Also, I don't own the horse's myself (Not rich enough for my own WB breeding program!)



  19. #119
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    I consider that someone of HAF's experience breeding wbs has a great deal of credibility on this issue.

    I don't know how it is elsewhere but in my area even the top equine vets are woefuly uninformed about equine nutrition particularly re requirements for young fast growing wbs. We've had to educate ourselves on this .


    There are still a lot of people who believe this about protein though.



  20. #120
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Greensboro, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    Fwiw, my bet is that Patrick Kittel bought the horse for a reason. Surely not just to do the young horse classes.

    What do you mean by 'just too big to be easily controlled and collected'? This horse is in Pro training and just been bought by a Pro Rider. This horse is certainly not an amateur ride but I doubt it will be 'difficult' for a Pro to control or to collect this one with all that great power from behind, an uphill comformation, a great neck and a short back! Those are the qualities you want in a high level dressage prospect.
    My interpretation of what mbm wrote was that you wouldn't see a more advanced horse moving this "big" because, well, there is more controlled movement as the levels go up. This was a very young horse doing what young horses should be doing - going forward forward with somewhat less attention paid to controlling every detail of it. This naturally big movement can then be "controlled" and tailored as the horse gets more fit and trained, as appropriate for the levels.

    My interpretation

    Quote Originally Posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    I didn't got to vet school, so I can only tell you what the vet's instructions were. Also, I don't own the horse's myself (Not rich enough for my own WB breeding program!)
    One should trust their professionals, but should not blindly trust them. There is a boatload if information out there on what does and does not cause growth issues, and any peer-reviewed, repeatable study has proven over and over it's not protein.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    I consider that someone of HAF's experience breeding wbs has a great deal of credibility on this issue.

    I don't know how it is elsewhere but in my area even the top equine vets are woefuly uninformed about equine nutrition particularly re requirements for young fast growing wbs. We've had to educate ourselves on this .


    There are still a lot of people who believe this about protein though.
    Exactly - vets get precious little training about nutrition, much less specific growth/nutrition related issues. I can never remember the "protein = growth issues" guy's name, but he's LONG admitted he made an incorrect assumption when he put that out there, and he's so, so sad it's never been able to be retracted
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



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