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  1. #1
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    Default Florestan or son Florencio

    Hi everyone. I have looked over past threads about these 2, so I have an idea of what I am looking for, but I am curious what peoples thoughts are on what each brings to the table.

    what kind of mare does each need?

    What are they proven to pass or improve on?

    I really like Florencio, talk about wow, but his sire is so proven and there is that saying if you like the son breed to the sire. Of course the mare will dictate which is a better match for her, but I am looking at all angles.

    TIA
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  2. #2
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    Default

    Well I am not sure whether this thread does make sense at all. Do not be offended, but there is almost to none frozen of Florestan around...
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
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  3. #3
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    Default

    Not offended. I ask because I dont know. That solves the problem then. Haha. Thanks for the heads up. I was just curious as I saw on the 2011 WBFSH stallion rankings Florestan was second, so I thought to atleast give him a look, learn about him versus a son.

    If anyone does have any frozen and/or ,just because I am curious, info would still be great.

    Thanks again!
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  4. #4
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    Default

    A-1 Performance Sires has Florestan in stock: http://a-1performancesires.com/PriceList/
    Cindy's Warmbloods
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  5. #5
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    Default

    Ahh! Thank you Cindys warmbloods. I thought I had seen it somewhere, but I could have mixed him up since I had been looking at many of his sons.

    Which there are many good sons and grand sons! And I never said I didn't think Florencio wasn't proven, that's crazy talk. Lol. My comment on florestan being proven is b his name was second only to Jazz on the list I had seen. I'm just trying to get thoughts and opinions. Since as I mentioned I just don't know. And of course, I take thoughts and opinins with a grain of salt, just as anyone should.

    But research never hurt anyone. :-)
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy's Warmbloods View Post
    A-1 Performance Sires has Florestan in stock: http://a-1performancesires.com/PriceList/
    Wow, that would be an amazing find. Like others, I had heard there was no Florestan frozen left - or at least, very, very little.

    As for Florencio - I believe someone alluded to this before, but word is that you need to use a mare with a very solid mind and stellar character as he *can* pass on a somewhat quirky or even difficult temperament (comes through his damline).
    Last edited by DownYonder; Feb. 3, 2012 at 01:37 PM. Reason: clarification



  7. #7
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    DY. Thank you! That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

    Just don't go buying all the Florestan frozen!!! Lol!! ;-)
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." *Thomas Edison
    A champion is a dreamer that refused to give up!!



  8. #8

    Default

    As for Florencio - I believe someone alluded to this before, but word is that you need to use a mare with a very solid mind and stellar character
    If you search previous thread in this very board (like I did a few days ago) on the subject of Florencio you will get a completely different set of opinion on the temperament he throws.

    Here are the past threads on Florencio:
    From October 2011
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...io#post5924885

    From September 2011
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ight=Florencio

    I recommend you weigh more heavily the opinion of people that have actually bred to him and seen the result first hand.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Formosus; Feb. 3, 2012 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Combined two posts
    Véronique
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  9. #9
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    Veronique, any of the Weltmeyer lineages can be either very calm or alternatively on the spicy side, depending on the individual horses. I have seen some Florencio's who are spicy -but this does not reflect their mind or ridability, because it is still very, very good. And that is the Florestan trademark of generally very good rideability along with that lovely movement and dressage ability. I know first hand about Weltmeyer because I have had several Weltmeyer kids and currently own one granddaughter who is definitely on the spicy side, albeit still very rideable and good competitively.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

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  10. #10
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    I believe that Florencio's frozen semen is sold with a lfg and not sold by the dose. This makes the fee appropriate and in these days quite fairly priced. Some of the per dose stallion fees are getting ridiculous! Anyways, I really like Florencio and may breed a mare with him one day.
    It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
    ? Marilyn Monroe



  11. #11
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    Default

    Is the Florencio frozen EVA free?



  12. #12
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    Florencio's semen is sold as EVA positive. I know awhile back there was some talk that he had become EVA negative but I don't know what the particulars were about that. I do know for sure that now he is sold as EVA positive.
    It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on.”
    ? Marilyn Monroe



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formosus View Post
    If you search previous thread in this very board (like I did a few days ago) on the subject of Florencio you will get a completely different set of opinion on the temperament he throws.
    I recommend you weigh more heavily the opinion of people that have actually bred to him and seen the result first hand.
    Actually, some time back when his name came up, a very experienced breeder commented, "Be careful. The temperaments can sometimes be dicey".

    And after the recent allusion by another very experienced breeder regarding temperament issues, I contacted several breeder friends in Germany who HAD used him. They told me basically the same thing and stressed it is fairly common knowledge in Germany that you have to use a mare with a solid mind, and from a line of good-minded horses. Both breeders specifically mentioned the Rubinstein and Donnerhall lines as best crosses for him temperament-wise.

    Yes, he can sometimes throw to the Florestan side of his pedigree as far as temperament goes, but he also sometimes throws to the Weltmeyer/Pik Bube side - i.e., a bit hot, spicy, stubborn, opinionated.



  14. #14
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    We own two very nice Florencio mares. Florenzio ( Florencio/Lady's King was the top mare on the GOV tour of North America 2008). The other Brunotte, earned her Verband Premium's Status last year. Both are from excellent GOV dam lines. The first I have bred and she has produced the best foal from our farm...first try! The other will be bred this year.

    That being said, there are a few Florencio sons a I would use over the sire. Have used Fackeltanz (Florencio/Feinbrand) and love the resulting offspring. Also have a mare in foal to Floriscount for 2012. Love the looks and pedigree of Chameur(Flornsio/Jazz) for the right mare.

    As typical, it is all about the dam line in these three sires. My Florencio mares were not complicated....but have heard from others a very different report.
    Nancy Holowesko
    www.crosiadorefarm.com
    Breeders of GOV Horses for Dressage



  15. #15
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    Mar. 7, 2007
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    Default

    I have two really lovely Florestan fillies. You can see pictures and video here:

    http://www.anteroequestrian.com/Floradita/

    and

    http://www.anteroequestrian.com/Fiona/

    My favorite stallion from this line is actually Fuerst Piccolo. We got an amazing filly from him last year:

    http://www.anteroequestrian.com/Feine/

    (in case you couldn't tell, I only breed bay fillies )

    ETA: I am pretty sure Andrea Sieg at Westphalians for USA has Florestan semen. Check out her website:

    http://www.westphalians.com



  16. #16
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    Florestan died last month at the age of 26. He has literally thousands of offspring on the ground- many successful at the highest level of sport. He was usually positive on mares with a bit of blood to them - and many that I see/have seen in Westfalia came out of TB influenced damlines. He normally brings uphill, great walk, great rideability. This is pretty well known since he bred for so long.

    I agree with Antero that, so far, my favorite offspring of his is Fuerst Piccolo.

    By the time a stallion hits the top FEI producing ranks - he is probably going to be in late teens to 20's in age. So a bit that ship has sailed situation.
    RoseLane Sporthorses-Westfalen horses and ponies
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  17. #17
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    Default

    I just checked with Andrea Sieg at Westphalians for USA and she confirmed that she does has Florestan semen for sale and is accepting orders through Feb 20th.

    http://www.westphalians.com

    Quote Originally Posted by honeylips View Post
    I agree with Antero that, so far, my favorite offspring of his is Fuerst Piccolo.
    A minor correction, but FP is actually Florestan's grandson (Fidertanz / Mephistopheles / Rembrant). He is incredible. I have seen him in person and though petite, he is an expressive and elastic mover and has amazing presence.



  18. #18
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    True FP is a grandson of Florestan. I have a top FP son myself - Fuerst Fiorano (Fuerst Piccolo/Donnerbube II)

    But as another tiny correction - FP is not a son of Fidertanz. He is a son of the great Fidermark! I have seen him as well many times and a good friend rode him for years. FP is very very rideable. He is not always consistent in producing small however - I have seen many tall ones from him. Including my own who is >180cm.

    Another very good Florestan son in the USA - is Florianus. He comes out of a terrific damline - and is a very good GP competitor himself.
    RoseLane Sporthorses-Westfalen horses and ponies
    Home of Golden State- 2012 Bundeschampion 3yo Pony Stallion
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeylips View Post
    But as another tiny correction - FP is not a son of Fidertanz.
    Ha! Very true. I have been filling out entry forms for a Fidertanz gelding this week and mistyped FP's pedigree.

    Yes, FP is a son of Fidermark. My stallion Fideracci was also a son of Fidermark, but he unfortunately died in 2007. Such an amazing line!!!



  20. #20
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    I do agree - it is my favorite line.

    Here is my FP son:

    http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...rstfiorano.jpg
    RoseLane Sporthorses-Westfalen horses and ponies
    Home of Golden State- 2012 Bundeschampion 3yo Pony Stallion
    Home of Golden West - 2013 Reserve Champion Westfalen Pony Stallion Licensing



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