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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default Another barn is using my Facebook photos on its website--is this okay?

    I sold a horse to a rider at Barn A. Horse was then sold to a rider at Barn B. Barn B just resold the horse. Barn B's website lists the horse as proudly sold by Barn B and then includes several photos, all (presumably) taken from my Facebook photo albums--I can't think of any other place these pictures are available. I am not friends--in the real or Facebook sense--with any trainers or staff at Barn B, but I am Facebook friends with several of the juniors and young adult riders. My privacy settings are such that only friends can see my photos.

    I would prefer the photos not be posted because my face is clearly shown and I'd rather not be associated with Barn B in this manner. Further, the horse is shown receiving prestigious ribbons and competing at a level much higher than it did while at Barn B. While it is true that Barn B did sell a horse who earned those honors, the horse didn't do that *while* at Barn B, so I feel the photos are a bit misleading and take credit for my and my trainer's work. There is no mention that the photos are aged or that they were taken with a previous rider/stable. Barn B had the horse for at least a year, so I can't believe there wasn't sufficient time to have other pictures taken.

    Some of the photos were professionally taken, so I feel that it wouldn't be out of line for me to request that they be removed. (I paid extra or bought large prints in order to secure the right to digitally reproduce the photos.) However, two were taken by my parents, so I can't make a request under the guise of pressure over copyright infringement by a photographer for those pictures.

    Am I overreacting, or am I right to want the photos taken down? Is this just a risk of posting photos on Facebook that I need to accept? How would you handle this?
    I'd rather be riding.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,132

    Default

    No way are you overreacting, I would be totally creeped out!

    Whether this is just a risk of posting of FB may be true. But its sad if it is. Although hearing from my co-worker today about what FB can do with the information you post (and even what you've deleted!) makes me nervous

    I dont know what legal action you can take against others using your photos, but I think you have every right to (at the very least!) ask them to remove the pics.

    Good luck!
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    gainesville, florida
    Posts
    233

    Default

    This is not okay at all... I would get it taken care of it immediately



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2006
    Posts
    1,509

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by no stirrups View Post
    However, two were taken by my parents, so I can't make a request under the guise of pressure over copyright infringement by a photographer for those pictures.

    Am I overreacting, or am I right to want the photos taken down? Is this just a risk of posting photos on Facebook that I need to accept? How would you handle this?
    Actually you have better rights with the pics your parents took than the pro photog's. They are YOUR PARENTS pics, and they didn't ask permission to use them..
    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers.
    http://bluemoongrafixva.webs.com



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by no stirrups View Post
    I sold a horse to a rider at Barn A. Horse was then sold to a rider at Barn B. Barn B just resold the horse. Barn B's website lists the horse as proudly sold by Barn B and then includes several photos, all (presumably) taken from my Facebook photo albums--I can't think of any other place these pictures are available. I am not friends--in the real or Facebook sense--with any trainers or staff at Barn B, but I am Facebook friends with several of the juniors and young adult riders. My privacy settings are such that only friends can see my photos.

    I would prefer the photos not be posted because my face is clearly shown and I'd rather not be associated with Barn B in this manner. Further, the horse is shown receiving prestigious ribbons and competing at a level much higher than it did while at Barn B. While it is true that Barn B did sell a horse who earned those honors, the horse didn't do that *while* at Barn B, so I feel the photos are a bit misleading and take credit for my and my trainer's work. There is no mention that the photos are aged or that they were taken with a previous rider/stable. Barn B had the horse for at least a year, so I can't believe there wasn't sufficient time to have other pictures taken.

    Some of the photos were professionally taken, so I feel that it wouldn't be out of line for me to request that they be removed. (I paid extra or bought large prints in order to secure the right to digitally reproduce the photos.) However, two were taken by my parents, so I can't make a request under the guise of pressure over copyright infringement by a photographer for those pictures.

    Am I overreacting, or am I right to want the photos taken down? Is this just a risk of posting photos on Facebook that I need to accept? How would you handle this?
    the person who took the pictures....in this case your parents, own the pictures. So yes you can request those be taken down too
    Adriane
    Happily retired but used to be:
    www.ParrotNutz.com



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2009
    Location
    Four Corners
    Posts
    901

    Default

    As far as the pro shots are concerned, let the photographer know that someone is using the photos that did not buy the rights to them.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2009
    Posts
    2,126

    Default

    You absolutely should say something, though the situation is mildly complicated by the fact that it is nice to maintain a good business relationships.

    I think it would be perfectly reasonable to call up Barn B and let them know how happy you are that they found a good home for horse X, but that you are uncomfortable with them using your photographs and ask if they wouldn't mind taking your photos off their website.

    I agree that you are not overreacting. It is unprofessional and inappropriate to use someone else's photographs in that manner. It is very creepy how personal information seems to escape to strange places from facebook...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,609

    Default

    Of course, if you don't want the photos on someone else's website, ask for them to be removed. That being said, did you email those photos to Buyer A? Is it possible that Buyer A simply passed them on to Buyer B...rather than they stole them off of your Facebook page? We've purchased lots of horses and ponies over the years and owners have emailed us their old photos. Or we've sold a pony and given a CD to the new owner with all of the pony's show photos on it. Sometimes they get passed on to the next owner. It may not have been done intentionally
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2010
    Posts
    4,688

    Default

    I would say no f-ing way!!!!

    Just ask for them to be removed.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 31, 2011
    Location
    southeast Georgia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    You absolutely are not overreacting.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2009
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    I do screen grabs all the time to share images, like maybe news photos. It had occurred to me that as much as I think my posted images belong to me, anyone could do a screen grab and use them.

    As far as FB goes, I am pretty sure that if you had the time to read their 30+ page privacy policy, you would find that everything you post on there is owned by them.

    This is not to say that you should not ask that Barn B desist from using your pictures.
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Is, Wash.
    Posts
    9,812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
    As far as FB goes, I am pretty sure that if you had the time to read their 30+ page privacy policy, you would find that everything you post on there is owned by them.
    It does, I remember reading through it. Yep, I really thought hard before signing up for FB.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2007
    Posts
    97

    Default

    This happened to me a while back where the barn website claimed to sell.. my pony... to me, but I had never heard of the place until stumbling upon their website years after I purchased him. And the sellers had no contact with said barn website. wierd.

    I'd send an email and ask for them to be removed without asking any questions about why the pictures are being used. If this doesn't work..I'd give them a phone call.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2009
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
    As far as FB goes, I am pretty sure that if you had the time to read their 30+ page privacy policy, you would find that everything you post on there is owned by them.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJenners View Post
    It does, I remember reading through it. Yep, I really thought hard before signing up for FB.
    I was pretty sure that you retain ownership but grant Facebook rights to universal use, or something like that.

    Okay went to check. See here.

    2. Sharing Your Content and Information

    You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:

    1. For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License).

    (emphasis mine)



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback. My immediate reaction was "eek!", and I'm glad I'm not alone.

    I read JLP's policy (quoted and linked below). I think I will simply mention to Barn B the $250 usage fee for farm websites that applies to one photo and explain that I like to keep a low profile online (hence, my strict--even more so now--privacy settings on Facebook), so I would prefer that the remaining photos be removed. I'm not sure how I'll bring this up, but I'm sure I'll manage to be super awkward, as usual.

    Just for the sake of conversation, I've quoted a excerpt of JLP's policy regarding website usage:

    "WEBSITE USAGE: Scanning of our photos is not permitted without our permission. Usage fees for photos on business and farm websites begins at $250. Multiple photos will be given a discount. Contact us for many special programs for websites. You may use photos on your “personal” website if a 5” x 7” of that photo has bee purchased."
    http://image8.photobiz.com/7178/2012...609_135145.pdf

    Reading this, I think I'm in the wrong in posting the photos on Facebook--although, I can't imagine actually enforcing that policy would create a sustainable business model for any photographer. I doubt Facebook is considered my "personal" website since: (1) I have a limited title regarding the photos (not for business use without additional fees, etc.); and (2) assuming it is true that Facebook owns any photos I post and that Facebook's title is not subject to the same limitations as mine, by posting the photos on Facebook I am essentially--without permission--transferring a title in excess of what JLP has granted me to Facebook. Does that seem right?

    Returning to my request to remove the photos, is it worth mentioning that the photos imply a sense of accomplishment that was not attained at Barn B? Or is using photos from the peak of the horse's career, no matter the owner, common practice?

    For example, I believe that because the photos show the horse competing in W division and winning tricolors at X shows, they imply that the horse did this under the supervision of Barn B. However, the truth is that the horse competed in Y division and earned low ribbons at Z shows. Obviously, this isn't directly lying and any sensible person could look up the record on USEF if the difference between a horse's performance in W and X divisions and ribbons at Y and Z shows really influenced the decision to patronize Barn B. I understand that if a horse wins the Kentucky Derby, the win photo will probably be displayed on his stud page even though the horse won under a different owner. However, this seems distinguishable given that the stud farm isn't advertising its ability to train; instead, it's advertising the horse's genotype, which it does own.
    I'd rather be riding.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalidascope View Post
    I was pretty sure that you retain ownership but grant Facebook rights to universal use, or something like that.

    Okay went to check. See here.

    2. Sharing Your Content and Information

    You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:

    1. For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License).

    (emphasis mine)
    I posted before reading your response. This makes more sense than transferring full ownership to FB; however, I'm still confused over whether FB counts as a "personal" website. I feel like it is a personal website and like I said, it probably doesn't matter whether it is or not, given that I can't imagine any photographer trying to police the posting of photos on FB, but I'm simply curious.
    I'd rather be riding.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 3, 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    Of course, if you don't want the photos on someone else's website, ask for them to be removed. That being said, did you email those photos to Buyer A? Is it possible that Buyer A simply passed them on to Buyer B...rather than they stole them off of your Facebook page? We've purchased lots of horses and ponies over the years and owners have emailed us their old photos. Or we've sold a pony and given a CD to the new owner with all of the pony's show photos on it. Sometimes they get passed on to the next owner. It may not have been done intentionally
    Good point! I had to think for a bit, but no, I didn't email the photos to the owner at Barn A. However, for what it's worth, one, possibly two, of the pictures were included in an online ad when my trainer and I were advertising the horse.
    I'd rather be riding.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2005
    Location
    between the mountains and the sea, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,936

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by no stirrups View Post
    Good point! I had to think for a bit, but no, I didn't email the photos to the owner at Barn A. However, for what it's worth, one, possibly two, of the pictures were included in an online ad when my trainer and I were advertising the horse.
    Even if Barn B did use photos from the online ad, I don't think that'd make it ok for them to imply that the photos were taken while horse was in training at Barn B with Barn B's trainer, which they are doing by not providing information for ownership of the photo on the ad.

    Makes you rethink posting stuff on fb...my privacy settings are as high as they'll go, but slightly OT PSA guys: Every time fb updates itself, you have to reset your privacy settings. Also, when you post pics on COTH remember to post them so your name doesn't show (method of doing this changes depending on your browser but on safari: double click enter on the URL, right click on photo, then copy image address & post that link so anyone can see it without your full name popping up next to the picture). Using the link provided by FB your full name will pop up.
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,298

    Default

    How old are you? Because if you are under 18 I suspect other laws kick in. Posting pictures of kids without permission - I thought there were protections provided to the kids.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2007
    Location
    SE Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,042

    Default

    I am friends with JLP on FB and I have some pictures that I bought from him on my FB page. In the caption I gave credit to JLP for the pictures and he commented on one of those pictures thanking me for only using pictures that I actually bought from him. Therefore, although I don't want to speak for him, I don't think that JLP would be angry with you for posting pictures on FB that you bought from him because he certainly didn't ask me to take mine down or anything, but you could shoot him a FB message about the current situation. He is very good about responding to FB messages and he may be able to guide you in the right direction or give you some help as far as this situation is concerned.
    Michigan State University College of Veterinary Medicine - Class of 2014

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    RIP Tall Tales



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