The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 54
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Darn it! I sent off my registration to Casanova Hunt for foxhunting camp, said on my form that I would be riding a mule, and got the info package back, so figured camp was a go for me and my Emma this Saturday. But then...come to find out (via having my check, form, and Coggins returned with no explanatory note, calling to find out why, and learning that a phone message had been left which my family failed to mention til I asked about it), Casanova has a "policy against letting mules participate" because so many of the attendees are beginners--some of whom "haven't ever ridden outside a ring"--and "many horses and ponies are frightened of mules."

    If the riders are that inexperienced, I have to wonder if mules are the biggest thing they'll need to worry about in regard to hunting???

    This is my first experience of mule prejudice and I am so disappointed...not so much with the fact that mules aren't welcome as in the fact that the policy against them wasn't included on the flyer or registration form. If it had been, I'd of course have respected it and never sent in a registration nor gotten my hopes up.

    Yeah, I know--there aren't many of us riding mules, but still...we are out there. And yeah--I'll take some cheese with this whine! http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/cry.gif



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Darn it! I sent off my registration to Casanova Hunt for foxhunting camp, said on my form that I would be riding a mule, and got the info package back, so figured camp was a go for me and my Emma this Saturday. But then...come to find out (via having my check, form, and Coggins returned with no explanatory note, calling to find out why, and learning that a phone message had been left which my family failed to mention til I asked about it), Casanova has a "policy against letting mules participate" because so many of the attendees are beginners--some of whom "haven't ever ridden outside a ring"--and "many horses and ponies are frightened of mules."

    If the riders are that inexperienced, I have to wonder if mules are the biggest thing they'll need to worry about in regard to hunting???

    This is my first experience of mule prejudice and I am so disappointed...not so much with the fact that mules aren't welcome as in the fact that the policy against them wasn't included on the flyer or registration form. If it had been, I'd of course have respected it and never sent in a registration nor gotten my hopes up.

    Yeah, I know--there aren't many of us riding mules, but still...we are out there. And yeah--I'll take some cheese with this whine! http://chronicleforums.com/images/cu...milies/cry.gif



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
    Location
    Full time in Delhi, NY!
    Posts
    6,398

    Default

    I'm sorry you had this happen to you. You're absolutely right, the "No Mules" rule should be on the fliers.

    Usually, everyone has a good time at Casanova's camp. However, my professional friend has attended and been frankly scared at the lack of control, ability, and general lack of suitability and preparedness especially in the non-jumping group. Most of her time in that group was devoted to listening to the JT-MFH's explain how to do a pulley rein to the folks whose horses were constantly bolting off! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...s/icon_eek.gif
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Yikes! Sounds like maybe I won't be sorry I am going to miss it. Too bad they can't break the non-jumping group into experienced riders who attend just to get experience of going on in a large group under their belts, and inexperienced riders who need a lot more baby-sitting. Seems it would be reasonable to not be quite so protective of the experienced group. Ah well. I guess I'll just have to spend my money somewhere else.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2000
    Posts
    2,426

    Default

    Actually Casanova breaks the non-jumping group down into many smaller groups. They have the groups ride before they do the break down.

    The jumping group typically stays as one big group.

    Its too bad you won't be able to go because I felt the clinic was excellent.

    waremule: We are actively looking for a place in Rappahannock. Are you aware of either land or places that might be suitable for a horse farm. we looking for 20-40 acres. Thanks



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2004
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    323

    Default

    I hope you don't mind if I borrow this thread, but I am very curious about foxhunting camps. How common are these and where are most of them? I live in AZ, so I'm not sure if we have them, but I really doubt it. I would love to go to horse amp again! I have such fond memories of it as a child.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Nope, don't mind! I only know details about the on that turned me down...it's a one-day camp, you ride for most of the morning then there is some lecture stuff, then you ride again in the early afternoon, then there is a showing of hounds or other lecture stuff.

    Someone told me that one or two other hunts do camps, too...and I know that one or two private farms offer something similar in our area...Hunter's Rest is one, as I recall. Hopefully she'll post here and chat it up.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2001
    Location
    Rosco, GA
    Posts
    1,965

    Default

    Sorry that happened Ware! But I do have to say that I've seen horses just flip out upon first contact with a mule. More than once.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Yep, I am very sensitive to the issue...have seen one or two horses really shy from the mules; but 99% of them either don't pay a whit of attention or else just express curiosity. I try to be EXTREMELY considerate of people in this regard when I have my mule out with horses, mostly by staying well away from them unless I know they are comfortable with my mule being near. Fortunately, my Emma is a good girl and pretty much just goes where and does what I ask.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2000
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Better contact the NAAMP and complain!

    National Association for the Advancement of Mule People.

    Maybe you could get a group of mule riders to picket the hunt camp about this discrimination !

    Those Muleaphobics !



  11. #11
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> National Association for the Advancement of Mule People <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    TOO FUNNY! I will tell you, as insignificant as it is, this little episode has given me a new appreciation for what prejudice feels like. But at the heart of it, I'm betting it has more to do with liability issues related to the low level of riding skills of participants rather than a particular bias against mules. Still disappointing, though.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2003
    Posts
    1,715

    Default

    My son clains my horse looks like a mule but no one has discriminated against us yet. The fact of the matter is that many of those people should be riding mules themselves -- they would be alot safer than on some goofy TB -- like my horse.

    I would be angry. Call the Master and tell her/him the situation. DO they not let mules in the field either? Where is the line? Why isn't this part of the camp experience? My mare spooked at white ponies. Are they excluded? My TB is deathly afraid of big rocks. Are they excluded? Also my TB bucks very hard when stung by bees. Will they keep bees out of the camp?

    I think they really don't want a mule at their hunt camp. Not fancy enough.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    imissvixen, you make a lot of really good points...I'm betting they are worried about potential liability issues if any of the horses totally freak out at the mule. And...they could have some mental image of me bringing a jug-headed longeared thing that brays at the top of its voice constantly, has burrs in its scrubbrush mane and tail, and needs a bicycle chain bit to keep it under control. Those unfamiliar with mules aren't used to seeing big fancy ones like mine. BTW, it was one of the masters who told me they have the policy of no mules.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2003
    Location
    Flint Hill, Virginia
    Posts
    2,685

    Default

    Hi. Here I am. Yes, I too have been the personal attack-ee of a mule (while I was on horseback.) My steadiest, nicest, most experienced etc. field hunter is totally freaked by mules and donkeys. Emus, no problem. Waving flags in a parade, not an issue. Running deer, nada. Mules? A big dilemma. So WM, I can't say I blame CH. Also, I concur that the groups can get a little hairy. I took a young horse once and only lasted an hour before I cried uncle and took him home. Wayyy too much for a young horse. Green rider on steady eddie is more the ticket there.
    Hello to the AZ rider etc. - yes, I offer hunting camps periodically through the year on an as-requested basis. I have a business partner in southern NJ who brings me groups of novice rider ladies for a long weekend in which we practice x-country riding techniques, have our own mock hunt, watch videos, meet and greet and visit with Melvin Poe, meet and greet and learn about the Old Dominion Hounds, then, if all is well, hunt with ODH one day. Hilltopppers mostly, and mostly mounted on my saintly crew, but you can also bring your own horse and use this as a learning camp for the horse too. Best not learning camp for horse AND rider. One greenie per pair is enough ... But this is always the case, my farm or any situation. The 'younger' the relative experience of the rider, the 'older' the relative experience (and I mean REAL LIVE hunting experiences) of the horse should be.
    CH camp is very high level, though, and I hope to attend to take photos on Saturday for the paper. Who all is going???
    * www.huntersrest.net -- Virginia hunt country's best Bed-and-Breakfast-and-Barn.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Posts
    831

    Default

    [QUOTE ] I think they really don't want a mule at their hunt camp. Not fancy enough.[/QUOTE]

    imissvixen - Based on my experience with the folks at CH, I believe that it is an inappropriate leap to accuse them of exclusion of mules because they consider mules as "not fancy enough".

    I would take their stated reason, as described above by WM, at face value. I don't know with whom WM spoke, but the master I know is a straight foward down-to-earth individual.

    I agreed with you and others that the policy of trying to "control the environment" for the newbies by excluding mules is a stretch. However, I would take the "no mules policy" as simply an attempt to do so and not a manifestation of predjudice or snobbery against mules as "not fancy enough".

    Different people, of course, have different experiences. Is your experience with CH such that is supports your interpretation of their motives?



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Posts
    831

    Default

    An additional perspective on this situation based on the following supposition:

    Specifically, I well imagine that (horse) stallions are excluded from the hunt camp.

    If that is the case, then it would be based on the reasonable conclusion that relative to, for example "white ponies", as presented above by immissvixen, a stallion (especially an unknown stallion-rider combination) has more potential to cause problems (of a different sort) than a gelding or a mare.

    I am sure that many of us, myself included, have hunted along side wonderful, well-behaved stallions that demonstrated no virility-based antics out in the huntfield. Truly wonderful hunting horses.

    But would exclusion of an unknown stallion (and its rider) from a hunt camp full of newbie horses and riders be considered prejudicial against stallions? Or would it be considered a good common sense decision based on assessment of relative risks.

    Perhaps the owner /rider of the stallion would consider themselves to be a "victim of predujice", as it were.

    But an alternative interpretation is that this policy of exclusion of unknown stallions is a reasonable decision based on the increased potential risk of unacceptable virility-based behaviors by stallions, as a whole.

    By analogy, the same would apply to the exclusion of mules. A certain percentage of horses have a profound and negative response to mules. This is known. In turn, the decision to exclude mules, would then be based on this known increased chance (again relative to white ponies) of the mere presence of mules causing disruption.

    Importantly, this is in the context of newbie horses and newbie riders (NOT experienced hunting horses and members - where is would be expected to handle a variety of situations, mules and otherwise).

    If the initial supposition that I proposed is incorrect, then obviously what follows in null.

    But perhaps it is of use to look at this mule exclusion policy as one based on assessment of relative risks. Any such decision will have an "arbitrariness" about it, such that the individual who is excluded will feel that they are a "victim of prejudice."

    Unfortunately, doing so may result in the inaccurate and unfair assigment of people's motive, when indeed, they have the best of motives - specifically to assure the good results for the group as a whole.

    'Nuff said. Thanks.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Whistlejacket, I can't disagree with any of your points about WHY a group might decide to have an exclusion policy for mules. Even that they would have such a policy doesn't particularly irk me--it is what it is, so be it. But! When there is such a policy (which one could reasonably assume was a well-considered rule and not just a last minute, knee-jerk reaction), then it does irk me when that policy is not stated in public information about the event, nor even in follow-on information sent to potential participants.

    You might argue that it is unrealistic to expect an organization to list every disallowed exception because there will always be at least one more than what they remember to list. That's reasonable. But why not simply state something like "For horses and ponies ONLY"?

    Looking back, I'm surprised I got a participant packet in the first place if there already was a policy in place about mules--since my note stated that I intended to bring one. Getting my registration form, check, coggins, and release back with no explanatory note really had me wondering. But I recall now that I left a voice message at the organizer's number asking about stabling in which I think I mentioned the mule. So probably they didn't notice my note (note to self: use <span class="ev_code_RED">BOLD RED</span> pen) and the phone call is likely what raised the flag.

    Suffice to say that I've taken away from all this a renewed determination to make it very clear on initial inquiries to any group that I have a mule and to be darned sure I get a yay or nay decision before going any further.

    I hope everyone who attends the camp has a wonderful time and learns a lot. I have several friends who are going--all of whom talked about boycotting it, but I told them that it'd be silly, if endearing.

    Anyway...I guess we've about talked this subject to death, I think I'll go get a quick ride in since it stopped raining. Thanks everyone for your supportive comments and intelligent conversation!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2003
    Location
    Orlean, Virginia
    Posts
    3,031

    Default

    Whistlejacket - I'm thinkin' you're a lawyer! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif
    But anyway, I've hunted with lots of jackasses and most were on horses!
    I've hunted with lots of mules and I only recall my horse having a problem with one that brayed loudly at the start of the meet. I honestly think its only the sound of braying that bothers horses. I support your sentiments Ware Mule and think you are handling this with class! Leave it!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Posts
    831

    Default

    WareMule,

    I absolutely agree with you that the information about the camp should have clearly stated any exclusionary policies. That is beyond question.

    If one were to give CH the benefit of the doubt (and obviously that is an individual decision whether or not to do so), then perhaps this lack of inclusion of such relevent information could be chalked up as being part of the "learning curve" that any relatively new enterprise experiences. If that is the case, then presumably exclusionary policies will be included in the literature distributed for next year's hunt camp.

    And why your application got as far as it did in the process when you clearly stated that you were bringing a mule, well, I haven't a clue. And I would be irked as well.

    WareMule, too bad that this is your "introduction to foxhunting", and I hope this ahs not dissuaded you from pursuing foxhunting with your mule. I am a VA-based foxhunter, and I hope to see you and your girl out hunting sometime. To be honest, I really like mules, in the hunt field, out of the hunt field, wherever.

    wateryglen - No, I am not a lawyer...but I have been called worse! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c...on_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_c.../icon_wink.gif



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 7, 2004
    Location
    Rappahannock VA
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Whistlejacket--I hunted many years ago with Loudoun and was rather involved showing hounds for a couple of years, so fortunately whole deal is not my first introduction to hunting.

    And He** NO, NOTHING could dissuade me from hunting my mule, because she is going to be the most awesome ride out there with a couple of seasons under her belt--if her progress, attitude, and demeanor to this point are any kind of indicators!

    I hope to see you in the field, too--please do say hi--won't be hard to figure out who I am, LOL! Just look for the ears.



Similar Threads

  1. Mules
    By otterhound63 in forum Off Course
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: Jan. 22, 2011, 08:55 AM
  2. Tell me more about mules
    By bumblesmama in forum Off Course
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Aug. 22, 2010, 12:32 AM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: Mar. 28, 2010, 05:59 PM
  4. BooHoo poor Dutrow
    By nightmoves in forum Racing
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: Jul. 21, 2009, 09:26 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jun. 1, 2009, 11:28 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness