My lovely mare is 100% TB- the fine boned lady like sort. She hasn't got her feet wet in eventing yet but she loves to jump and is quite athletic. Down the road I would like something with a bit more bone and a bit more stout (bigger barrel) so I have thought of breeding her to a warmblood. Yes I know it's cheaper to buy a young horse but I just LOVE this mare and would keep the baby for me. Are there any warmblood stallions out there that are basically half TB? Then I would get 3/4 TB and 1/4 warmblood. I just love the TB mind, athleticism, but want something a bit stouter with better feet. All comments/ feedback welcome. What is the breeding of your event horse?
My guy is 100% TB and that's my preference. I don't mind 7/8, and, depending on the horse and the breeding, 3/4 is ok. But, I'm a hardcore TB girl.
Not all TBs are created equal. Both Toby and Vernon are stout fellows. Toby is small (15.3) and a little on the rangy side (a nice thing in my book!), but I would not say that he was fine boned or slab sided at all. Vernon is built like a tank (he comes from good chaser lines, I've been told, which probably explains his stouter build). There's an English bred TB in my care right now who is HUGE, although not tall. But I have ridden my fair share of slab sided, fine boned, fragile little TB things. Not my preference, but you see that type a lot, especially if they were bred to be sprinters.
I am NOT the person to talk to about stallions and breeding, etc, but I am SURE you can find a good stallion that should give her some more substance without throwing out the athletic build and TB brain. You may be able to find it in a TB, for that matter, if you know what you are looking for. There are a lot of nice stallions out there, of all breeds. I am partial to Irish breeding if I'm not going 100% TB
I would just look for a heavy TB stud. The barn I work for has a big five year old who is BUILT, looks just like a warmblood. He's going to go to a few warmblood inspections this year and (hopefully) get a few approvals, and then will be standing at stud for the public.
Husband's horse is 100% OTTB - nice bone, lovely elegant body without being clunky.
The big horse is 7/8 TB (officially Canadian Sport Horse). The rest of him is a mishmash of draft - to include Friesian and at one time a Clydesdale apparently walked past a great grandmother. . .
YB is right - there is a huge variance in "type" in TB. And even when you are sure of what a stallion produces it is still a crap shoot. The one and only time I ever bred, it was a TB mare to a Canadian Commerical stallion. I had seen many of this guys get and loved loved loved what he produced. A friend even had a gelding that was out of a 3/4 sister to our mare by this sire. What we got was nothing like the rest of the siblings.
For me it's Thoroughbred 100% and this probably won't help you as I don't know where you are but, my retired gelding is constantly mistaken for a Warmblood. You can find a large boned Tb stallion and breed her to him. Remember though you won't get a registered foal unless you do live cover.
Also, remember when you breed if you want to change something you have to find a stallion that throws his genetics because the mare contributes about 65% to the foal. Denny has an interesting running commentary on Facebook about breeding and he loves Thoroughbreds.
For me (I'm breeding my mare this year) I found a big 16.2 Tb stallion right near me so we're going to see what we get. Personally, I did CTR and some endurance for 25 years and bone size means very little to me, although I like a taller horse about 16h or bigger. I look at whether the horse stayed sound with hard work. Those little Arabs carry over 200 lbs up and down The mountains and pound the dirt roads year after year.
These are just some of my ramblings, I hope you get a gorgeous baby whatever you breed to. If you're interested I can send info on the stallion I'm breeding my mare to as they also do AI with him.
RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"
"To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."
I like 1/2 to 3/4 TB.
3/4 to 7/8 if it is a nice big quiet TB line.
I like the Trakehner posted above.
I liked Onasis. I like the huntery type and Onasis was a nice type for that.
Tycoon was very pretty too.
But if you are looking for bone/size then maybe check out Roc USA. I've got my eyeballs on him because he's nice and stout and he has the TB line that I like so much. (Turn-to)
(the chrome doesn't hurt either...)
He is used quite a bit to cross with TB mares.
He's got a lot of blood in him but is said to produce good sized horses that are very easy to work with. People say he out produces himself which isn't a bad thing!
To buy one of these nice (warmblood) kids as a weanling is between 10-15K.
To breed one yourself is more like 5K by the time they hit the ground if all goes well.
And frankly, good TBs aren't much cheaper. The breeder I buy through has some nice kids on the ground. 2 and 3 year olds that are on their way to the track. They are all priced at 10K. And worth it IMO.
Also, the sucky thing about looking for a nice large boned TB stallion is that JC is live cover only and though you may not care about registry the TB stallions are usually only available live cover. So unless he's a TB used for sport horse rather than race horse you have to go to him.
While I love the 100% TB for eventing, I do understand the desire to breed a nice TB mare to a WB for something with a bit more substance and movement...
I am a bit biased, as I have two full siblings by him, but I recommend Balta' Czar as a good cross with a TB to produce an all around type (he has babies excelling in hunters, jumpers, and eventing). I haven't seen a baby of his that I didn't like. Great personalities and lovely types!
And, like purplnurpl suggested, Roc USA could be a nice match, depending on the mare. We would love to breed our Balta' Czar filly to him!
At the upper levels, the most successful horses have TB% in excess of 70%, and there are still many pure TBs succeeding at that level (and all levels). If you simply like TBs, then go that route.
At the lower levels, however, many types/breeds can succeed. You asked about warmbloods, and most warmblood stallions pointed towards eventing have at least 30-60% blood in the pedigree. With your mare being TB, any foal that you have by a warmblood sire will likely have 65%-80% blood in the pedigree, which is more than enough.
Unless you are breeding for an advanced horse, I wouldn't worry about blood percentage too much. Evaluate your mare, pick a well-conformed stallion that matches her (and crosses well with TBs) and that has a track record of producing traits that you want (mind, athleticism, movement, jump, etc.), and then hope for the best.
I would vote all or almost all TB as well, depending of course on your long term ambitions for the offspring. Yes heavier bone is desireable for the rigors of XC but I think you could still find that in a TB stallion.
I have a friend who has had great success with a Salute the Truth baby who was out of a more dainty mare, although she wasn't necessarily a sheet in the wind. Here is his page:
I love the TBs. All my faves have been 100%. Had one 7/8 TB 1/8 Oldenburg who was gorgeous and a nice mover but ultimately not an eventer, but I can see wanting to add a bit of the fancy movement. I believe that a lot of Warmbloods are largely TB. The sire of the one I mentioned was registered Old but was 3/4 TB.
Also, while I think "type" is a very personal preference which has to do with your own aesthetic preferences and possibly rider conformation, I don't necessarily think heavier/stockier TBs are sounder or more talented than the lighter built ones. Any more than is true of human athletes. Bone density is important, but rarely measured in horses. My 2 war horses were both very fine types. I think it is more a question of being proportionate and having good angles so a horse is "easy on itself."