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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Florida
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    1,328

    Default Sales Ads... Why So Misleading??

    Ok, so this is sort of a rant as well as a question. Do you find that sales ads, when looking for horses can be so frustrating?? Training level eventer! But only has pics and videos of BN level courses.

    Or this, "He jumps 5 feet courses!" But the picture shows a 2'6 oxer.

    What is the deal? Do they do that or are the owners blowing smoke up my bootie? When I message the owners for more pictures or his USEA name so I can look up his record I either hear nothing or I hear a bunch of babble about what he has "done" but they have no pictures of it. When I ask for videos, they send me more of the horse doing 2'6. Seriously? Do not advertise a 3'6 jumper with only videos and pictures of him doing a foot lower.

    I hate to drive all the way to North Carolina to see this wonderful horse and he turns out to be a bust.

    Does this happen to everyone?
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,264

    Default

    I think some people are seeing their horse through rose colored glasses. They don't even see it as exaggerating or lying. "Oh, Dobbin jumped 3'6" once a year ago, he's absolutely a 3'6" horse." That sort of thing. Frustrating for buyers, for sure. I worked with a horse for a couple years. He was ok, could get around a 3' course with a tactful rider, but his personality sucked, he wasn't the soundest animal, and he had really iffy conformation. He was fairly downhill with mediocre movement. No joke, the owner advertised him as ready to take a junior to WIHS as a 3'6" hunter. I don't think she was intentionally lying to buyers, it's just what she wanted to believe.

    Sorry you're having bad experiences.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2008
    Posts
    1,143

    Default

    I dunno, it drives me nuts too. but from the opposite end of the spectrum. I tell the truth, both good and bad....and they always take the bad to be way worse then it is, I don't make it better, or worse. Truth is the truth, and well, a horse is what he is.

    And the good they diminish. I have had two people look at a horse I have for sale, and both times, been told "he is too rideable". I didn't know a horse could be TOO rideable?

    I love the ads that say...."Giant horse, 17 hh..." and you go out and MAYBE he is 15.3. If I only had a dollar for all the "black" horses that are seal bays...you get the idea.

    I have to agree, it is probably the rose colored glasses, the hill they are standing on, with said owner downhill, and the dark stall they are kept in!

    LOL.



  4. #4
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    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Florida
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    Default

    Thanks guys! I just have not been looking for a horse in a while. The last horses that I leased/bought I had known for a while and I knew what they have done. Right now I'm looking for something with more experience then what I have had before. I want to go training again and I need a horse that can take me there without the many years that it takes to bring along an OTTB.

    Do not get me wrong, I love my OTTBs and the young guns, but I want a horse that has been there and done that. Though I have to say that the track trainers that I know are more honest on the height, color, and history then most horse owners that I have dealt with. I just hoping that I will find the right guy.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    Drives me up a flippin' WALL. To the point where I will summarily refuse to even look any further at a horse that is advertised like this.

    A horse that once jumped a coop that was shared on the T and P courses at a local unrecognized HT is NOT "schooling Prellim"!

    Not every horse is a "10 mover" and showing it going around reaalllly slowly with its nose cranked into its chest is not going to convince me otherwise!

    And the word "potential" . . . sorry, that means NOTHING to me or to anyone else.

    And advertisers may think they're being honest, but saying things like "easy keeper" when the horse looks ratty and is a bag of bones in its photos is sort of revealing of either the horse's actual metabolism or the horse-husbandry skills of the seller.

    And it's going to take more than a claim that "Leslie Law LOVED him" to make me look twice. Leslie Law patting the horse on the neck absently and saying "good boy" when the horse finally jumped the oxer after 15 tries does not really mean he LOVED the horse.
    Click here before you buy.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2008
    Posts
    5,462

    Default

    That is why I have become resigned to buying the lamest horse I can find. That way I am not disappointed in what I eventually get .



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2002
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    Looking up
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    Default

    Yes...dishonesty, or untruthfulness, or fabrication, or simply not knowing how to tell the height of a horse....all drive me fruitbatty...and you know, it's probably close to fraud to advertise stuff about a horse that cannot be proven and is basically just rhetoric. Especially about jumping. When you advertise a horse that can jump 3-6, they need to be able to jump a 3-6 course today, tomorrow, and yesterday, not in someone's imagination.

    I think the only thing you can do is ask questions carefully and listen very carefully to the answers. Ask direct questions - does he tie? Crosstie? Stand? And the answer is a hesitant yes -- then I ask why they hesitated -- well, he's pulled back and broken his halter before. Ok, how many times? Well, three ... and you can't tie him in a trailer...why? ....he falls down .... This horse was advertised as beginner safe to handle. I do not consider a horse beginner safe if they pull back and fall over when tied, do you?

    Bangs-head-on-desk.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2008
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    Maryland
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FLeventer View Post
    Thanks guys! I just have not been looking for a horse in a while. The last horses that I leased/bought I had known for a while and I knew what they have done. Right now I'm looking for something with more experience then what I have had before. I want to go training again and I need a horse that can take me there without the many years that it takes to bring along an OTTB.
    Even if all they've done with a horse is unrecognized competitions, the owner should be able to direct you to results posted online (who DOESN'T post results online these days?). Video is practically mandatory. Seriously, it's 2012. There's no way I would travel to see a horse without these things unless I were in the market for a dirt cheap green bean/ diamond in the rough/ OTTB type.



  9. #9
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    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Florida
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckz View Post
    Even if all they've done with a horse is unrecognized competitions, the owner should be able to direct you to results posted online (who DOESN'T post results online these days?). Video is practically mandatory. Seriously, it's 2012. There's no way I would travel to see a horse without these things unless I were in the market for a dirt cheap green bean/ diamond in the rough/ OTTB type.

    You see, if they did an unrecognized training and placed relatively well then I would be interested in seeing more. I agree that video is mandatory in all situations. How hard is it to pay someone to grab a video if you are planning on selling the horse?

    Also if you said the horse went training then provide me records, the name of the event, or something!!! I mean seriously, be honest. Do not waste my time or yours.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  10. #10
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    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Florida
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Drives me up a flippin' WALL. To the point where I will summarily refuse to even look any further at a horse that is advertised like this.

    A horse that once jumped a coop that was shared on the T and P courses at a local unrecognized HT is NOT "schooling Prellim"!

    Not every horse is a "10 mover" and showing it going around reaalllly slowly with its nose cranked into its chest is not going to convince me otherwise!

    And the word "potential" . . . sorry, that means NOTHING to me or to anyone else.

    And advertisers may think they're being honest, but saying things like "easy keeper" when the horse looks ratty and is a bag of bones in its photos is sort of revealing of either the horse's actual metabolism or the horse-husbandry skills of the seller.

    And it's going to take more than a claim that "Leslie Law LOVED him" to make me look twice. Leslie Law patting the horse on the neck absently and saying "good boy" when the horse finally jumped the oxer after 15 tries does not really mean he LOVED the horse.
    So agreed on every point made in this post. The stuff that I have had to deal with just makes me want to give up.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 25, 2009
    Location
    Alabama
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    216

    Default

    Agreed, with all of it. I've only dipped my little toe in all of this, and already I feel skeptical about everything anyone says. I need pictures, videos, results, SOMETHING, or I'm not interested.

    It comes from the other side too, like gold2012 said. I just sold my horse, and I had plenty of people asking me if he could go Training or Preliminary when I clearly stated that he didn't want to do the bigger XC. Then I got the ones looking for their beginner kids when I clearly stated that he was spooky andand not for beginners, and in fact needed a relatively confident rider.

    Um... I spent a lot of time writing my add, the least people could do is read it all the way through.

    I have, however, met honest owners out there! I met a lovely lady with a fabulous Training level gelding and she was very honest about everything he did (or didn't) do. Of course, she also had video/results/pictures...



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2003
    Location
    Michigan
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    2,154

    Default

    I think it's because people want to lure a buyer to come look at the horse. And they want to get as much money as they can for the horse. The old saying: "A horse is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it" is true. So, they "embellish" the ad a bit in hopes that someone will think the horse is worth it.

    I think the sellers are hoping that some buyer who just fell off the turnip truck, will buy the horse without checking their USEA record, asking for videos, test riding it, or doing a vet check.



  13. #13
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    Aug. 2, 2001
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    Ft Worth, TX, USA
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    Default

    I've been on both sides, and buyers are just as bad I advertised an UNBROKEN 3 yr old with very good gaits, so I emphasized her dressage potential. Had 2 ph. conversations with a woman who "only did dressage". When she came to see her, she immediately ask me to longe her over some fences. When I went over our ph. conversation, she said, "well I might want to jump someday." I told her no. Had she told me this over the phone I would have been prepared, but as I'd never even attempted this with the horse before that wasn't a fair request.
    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

    What's the status on Tuco?



  14. #14
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    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Florida
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    Default

    I have dealt with some bad buyers as well. I had a Novice packer that I clearly stated would not do training no matter what. Horse just started stopping on XC when the jumps went up. I listed all this in the sales ad. This horse would jump a BN and N course with a monkey on his back and had the results to prove it. I had numerous emails and calls asked if he had the potential for training. I started saying, "Well if he could do training then I would not have listed him as a Novice packer but instead a Training packer and I would not have stated in the ad that he would not do a full Training XC course if his life depended on it."

    He eventually sold to an adult ammy that never wanted to go beyond Novice. They had their happy years together that are still going on till today.

    I just wish horse shopping was much easier.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2004
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    2,615

    Default

    Agree it goes both ways. And it is the wishful thinking of both parties that keeps it going. I know that when I have gone to see horses whose show names/records couldn't be located, or whose owners' video cameras are broken this week, or whatever, that I am taking a chance, probably a dumb one. Just as when I made like 5 custom videos for an out-of-state buyer of various requested scenes, then spent 4 days showing him to her, only to be told I had misrepresented him.

    In all those situations I knew I was probably being dumb, but couldn't kill that last shred of optimism and thus wasted my own time.

    Sometimes the sellers are being intentionally deceitful, but in other cases they are just repeating what they were told.

    It's hard to do in the face of a possibly amazing long-shot deal, but if you don't want to waste your time you have to hold that line on videos/records etc. Easier said than done tho.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Happily in Canada
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    Default

    +1 for going both ways.

    I had a hard time selling a going Prelim schoolmaster for a decent price. I had a professional horse seller look at my ad - she said, "You are being too honest. Don't provide them with actual results or any explanations as to why you had time faults (hard ground) or extra rails (show jumping on a side-hill). Just send some photos, edit your video to only show the best parts, and make them come look at him, they'll love him when they get here."

    The worst part... she was right.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  17. #17
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    Oregon
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    Default

    Why so misleading? Because there are plenty of idiots out there that will believe every word and make no attempt to verify the info.

    Those are the same folks that are then surprised when their "schooling prelim - upper level prospect" dumps them into the baby beginner novice ditch at the first derby.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2009
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    1,805

    Default

    A couple of years ago my friend was looking for a horse and I was helping her in her search. One horse we went to see was such a bag of bones we nearly bought it to save it. Sadly most of the other horses were well fed and looked good, but apparently this one was not "worth" enough. The videos and pictures must have been old because online the horse looked great. (7 hour round trip wasted-the horse was so lethargic we really couldn't even evaluate it)

    My friend found another horse she really liked but the seller conveniently forgot the horse's show name even though I asked her several times. She also forgot what the injury was that caused a huge scar on the horse's leg even though she was the horse's original owner. In the end my friend passed even though she really liked the horse. The lack of the show record and the scar were not the reason it was just the "used car salesman" attitude she could not get past.



  19. #19
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    Jan. 10, 2007
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    too far from the barn
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    Default

    I have done a reasonable amount of buying (and less selling). I have bought sight unseen, but I agree that about 1 in 10 horses is at all similar in person to how it is represented in its ads. I have gotten less and less patient about dealing with the average seller and have bought the past 7 from professionals.

    Of course, my ottb that I moved up to prelim on and is the total packer over fences, but is really not fond of dressage was advertised as a dressage horse because he would not jump
    OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!



  20. #20
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Western South Dakota
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    Default

    Decent video is a must and not that hard to do. A seller should not have a problem answering questions. If a seller can't answer questions to your satisfaction, walk away.

    We have been on both sides and for the most part have been fortunate in buying and selling but there have been a few times . We regularly hear about a potential horse "english" horse because the horse won't go slow enough for "western" and horse is at least 17 hands. Usually horse is a 15 hand runaway.

    Be honest about yourself as well. If you are a Novice rider, please tell us. If you have fear issues, please tell us. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy and will pay off in the long run.



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