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  1. #21
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    Which is it, then?

    Why does ANY horse end up on Craigslist for a pittance? Or why does a well-bred, registered *WARMBLOOD* end up there?

    I thought your question was the latter.

    Are you now saying you have found tons of registered, well-bred Warmbloods that have had zero issues for less than 1k? Really?

    My post was in response to your original OP. No offense, but many people can find cheap (insert whatever breed here) horses that work out nicely for them. That's not what your OP was referring to, though.



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASBJumper View Post
    Which is it, then?

    Why does ANY horse end up on Craigslist for a pittance? Or why does a well-bred, registered *WARMBLOOD* end up there?

    I thought your question was the latter.

    Are you now saying you have found tons of registered, well-bred Warmbloods that have had zero issues for less than 1k? Really?

    My post was in response to your original OP. No offense, but many people can find cheap (insert whatever breed here) horses that work out nicely for them. That's not what your OP was referring to, though.
    Yes, my question was how do registered Warmbloods end up there, in some yahoo's backyard, being sold on the cheap. This is not the first I've encountered, and I have yet to encounter a truly crazy and/or nasty horse of ANY breed via craigslist. One that I sold as a bucking horse to a stock contractor (bucking horse of the year that season), but he was no shade of crazy. My statement about cheap horses was in reference to your assertion that they were likely to be lame and/or crazy because of the price and location (craigslist).

    No need to get snarky. I'm not ignorant enough to think I'm the only one that can find and make up cheap horses.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    the owner is a bit woo-woo.
    Funny, maybe its a PNW slang like "spendy," but I totally got woo-woo without need of definition. lol

    CL cruising is a shared affliction of many. Its a little like the check-out lane tabloids -- reading between the ad lines there can be some drama, heartache and joy -- all while browsing for horses. Every horse has a story.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    Yes, my question was how do registered Warmbloods end up there, in some yahoo's backyard, being sold on the cheap. This is not the first I've encountered, and I have yet to encounter a truly crazy and/or nasty horse of ANY breed via craigslist. One that I sold as a bucking horse to a stock contractor (bucking horse of the year that season), but he was no shade of crazy. My statement* about cheap horses was in reference to your assertion that they were likely to be lame and/or crazy because of the price and location (craigslist).

    No need to get snarky. I'm not ignorant enough to think I'm the only one that can find and make up cheap horses.
    Not meant to be snarky, just matter-of-fact. My statement was referring to the same thing your OP did, specifically well-bred, registered Warmbloods. Not all CL horses.

    And i stand by it. People can almost always find a good home by word of mouth for a nice, but perhaps not-overly-talented, WB, for a few thousand if there's nothing glaringly wrong. But usually, there is something glaringly wrong.. it just may not be evident at first.



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASBJumper View Post
    And i stand by it. People can almost always find a good home by word of mouth for a nice, but perhaps not-overly-talented, WB, for a few thousand if there's nothing glaringly wrong. But usually, there is something glaringly wrong.. it just may not be evident at first.
    In the case of the original horse in question, I'd suggest that it's the woo-woo that's glaringly wrong, nothing to do with the horse itself.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  6. #26
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    I think it's entirely possible to find a great horse, without problems (aside from the ignorance and subsequent mishandling of the owner, often even with the best intentions), of any breed on sites like craigslist. Certainly you can find the nutjob horses, too, but I wouldn't place a blanket judgement on them. And when you do find them, like Heinz 57, you wonder, "How the heck did THIS happen?" And then you thank your lucky stars, pack up the horse, and go home

    I wonder if anybody remembers the story of a really successful event rider who represented the US on a horse she found for $2500 in the classifieds, or something like that… anybody? I think it was even a horse she found in the PNW, too. I wish I remembered the details right now.



  7. #27
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    Well, lets not forget that being a well- bred, registered specimen of ANY breed really means very little at all.. He could be conformationally unfortunate, a craptastic mover with a rhino brain regardless of paperwork or bloodlines.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  8. #28
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    I have been told twice in my life that two different mares were confirmed rearers and I was young enough /dumb enough to try and find out for myself. This was by people who definately knew and trained quite a few horses... But I was a resourceful horsewoman aka I had friends who would run around behind me with a whip for whenever that "Hey hey what is that pressure!?!"

    Now both of those mares were GIVEN to me lol. Funny part is neither of them ever tried anything and one of them ended up being a childs hunter. I got fair market value on them both years later.

    NOW the ones that told me "He's/she's perfect for what you want!" And I paid GOOD money for... Were a different story lol. Ive had a couple of purchases that had glaring problems after the fact more than giveaways cheaper ones lol

    Its a gamble regardless.... Really
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    In the case of the original horse in question, I'd suggest that it's the woo-woo that's glaringly wrong, nothing to do with the horse itself.
    LOL, entirely possible.



  10. #30
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    And a new Cothism is born!
    ::If I was wrong don't you think I would know it?::



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlex View Post
    And a new Cothism is born!
    You know there's a hand motion that goes with it, right?
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  12. #32
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    And an all natural horse cookie recipe
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASBJumper View Post
    How do "nice reg. WB horses" end up on Craigslist for 2k? Tons of reasons. But most likely - wouldn't stay sound or a b*tch to ride or handle. In another words, just because it's a WB and just because it's papered, doesn't mean it's "nice".
    I have a well-bred, talented RPSI gelding who could likely do upper-level work quite well. He has an excellent build and is a nice mover, loves his job, wants to please, and is an all-around awesome dressage horse. He's by Lester Patron and out of a nice but not famously-bred Trakhener mare.

    I got him for $300.

    It was every horse owner's nightmare: Attack of the Mystery Lameness.

    He was bred by a friend of mine. After a year under saddle he was put in training with my trainer at age 5. At age 6 he began to show intermittent mild lameness. At age 7 the lameness dramatically worsened. My friend did ultrasounds, x-rays, blocks, joint injections, the whole shebang, but was unable to pin down the lameness any closer than somewhere in his right front. When he was 8 she took him to UCD and had an MRI done.

    Sorting through the discharge papers, the MRI showed that he has moderate lucency on the flexor cortex of the navicular bone and a roughening of the bone [it looks chewed on]. This roughened edge rubs against his DDFT sheath and caused a wound which developed scar tissue [the wound probably happened when he was 6 and the lameness first presented]. Due to long periods of stall rest because of his lameness, the scar tissue adhered to the navicular bursae.

    Looking back it makes perfect sense. He would be sound until increasing work caused the adhesion to pull free, and then inflammation, pain, and lameness would cause him to be put on stall rest again.

    When he was 9 my friend reached the end of her rope and told us that she was considering putting him down. We bought him for half the cost to ship him from NorCal to SoCal. He spent about 6 months in a large pipe pen with daily handwalking and intermittent lameness, and then we had to move.

    Now that we're in the PNW he is in a small pasture by himself and seems to be 100% sound, but only time will tell. He's 11 now. I think he's sound because he moves around constantly, walking from one end of his pasture to the other, and the scar tissue does not have an opportunity to adhere.

    I will hopefully start riding him this year, and fingers crossed that he stays sound. He will probably never be able to do anything more than Third, but as long as he is sound I'm fine with that.

    He could have been born with this defect, or it could have developed. We really don't know. All that matters is that he has it.

    So that's how I ended up with a $30,000 horse for $300.
    Last edited by Tilly; Jan. 24, 2012 at 11:37 PM.
    Rebel Without Cash!



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilly View Post
    I have a well-bred, talented RPSI gelding who could likely do upper-level work quite well. He has an excellent build and is a nice mover, loves his job, wants to please, and is an all-around awesome dressage horse. He's by Lester Patron and out of a nice but not famously-bred Trakhener mare.

    I got him for $300.

    It was every horse owner's nightmare: Attack of the Mystery Lameness.

    He was bred by a friend of mine and was put in training with my trainer at age 5. At age 6 he began to show intermittent mild lameness. At age 7 the lameness dramatically worsened. My friend did ultrasounds, x-rays, blocks, joint injections, the whole shebang, but was unable to pin down the lameness any closer than somewhere in his right front. When he was 8 she took him to UCD and had an MRI done.

    Sorting through the discharge papers, the MRI showed that he has moderate lucency on the flexor cortex of the navicular bone and a roughening of the bone [it looks chewed on]. This roughened edge rubs against hs DDFT sheath and caused a wound which developed scar tissue [the wound probably happened when he was 6 and the lameness first presented]. Due to long periods of stall rest because of his lameness, the scar tissue adhered to the navicular bursae.

    Looking back it makes perfect sense. He would be sound until increasing work caused the adhesion to pull free, and then inflammation, pain, and lameness would cause him to be put on stall rest again.

    When he was 9 my friend reached the end of her rope and told us that she was considering putting him down. We bought him for half the cost to ship him from NorCal to SoCal. He spent about 6 months in a large pipe pen with daily handwalking and intermittent lameness, and then we had to move.

    Now that we're in the PNW he is in a small pasture by himself and seems to be 100% sound, but only time will tell. He's 11 now. I think he's sound because he moves around constantly, walking from one end of his pasture to the other, and the scar tissue does not have an opportunity to adhere.

    I will hopefully start riding him this year, and fingers crossed that he stays sound. He will probably never be able to do anything more than Third, but as long as he is sound I'm fine with that.

    He could have been born with this defect, or it could have developed. We really don't know. All that matters is that he has it.

    So that's how I ended up with a $30,000 for $300.
    Sorry but...this is not really a good deal. He was 300$ because he's worth 300$. Actually, I wouldn't have paid for such horse.

    You haven't rode him since you got him. He never been really trained. Will he be the nice horse you remember with the nice work ethic? And you'll have to go really slowly on the work load as he surely never had much muscles.
    He's 11 and will likely start to develop arthritis sooner than later givin his condition (and other conditions if you are not lucky) And by the time you reach third level, if ever, you will have spend that 30k he was once worth.

    For 5k, I could get a nice little Tb and do 3rd level in a year or so.
    (yes, I know he could die the day after the purchase! But with clean PPE/Xrays, its easier to hope for the best.)

    Good luck with him staying sound.

    There is always a reason why a horse is that cheap or free. It was someone's problem.



  15. #35
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    I got my Friesian filly for a small fraction of her advertised price when there was a full price offer on the table. Why? Because her former owner was a beginner rider, and she was smart enough to realize she was in way over her head. When the filly was advertised for 10K, everyone who called were also beginners who "just loved Friesians!" Her owner was smart enough to not let her go down the road with the next one with a fat checkbook, but she also wanted to be out, now. She was happy to see her go to someone with experience, and I am so happy to have her!



  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    There is always a reason why a horse is that cheap or free. It was someone's problem.
    Not to go all cliche, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People will pay what something is worth *to them*.

    Yes, cheapies and freebies are always someone's "problem". Though, "problem" can be relative, and it seems more often than not the "problem" is ignorance, laziness, or financial trouble.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    Sorry but...this is not really a good deal. He was 300$ because he's worth 300$. Actually, I wouldn't have paid for such horse.

    You haven't ridden him since you got him. He has never been really trained. Will he be the nice horse you remember with the nice work ethic? And you'll have to go really slowly on the work load as he surely never had much muscles.
    He's 11 and will likely start to develop arthritis sooner than later given his condition (and other conditions if you are not lucky) And by the time you reach third level, if ever, you will have spend that 30k he was once worth.

    For 5k, I could get a nice little Tb and do 3rd level in a year or so.
    (yes, I know he could die the day after the purchase! But with clean PPE/Xrays, its easier to hope for the best.)

    Good luck with him staying sound.

    There is always a reason why a horse is that cheap or free. It was someone's problem.
    This. I would not have paid a cent either...
    Same thing could be said for the lovely DWB/ASB filly i bred. I free-leased her out as a coming 5 yr old because she was recovering from a DDFT injury and i could not predict how she would hold up to work in the future. But i too can say she could've made it to upper levels if she hadn't hurt herself, who knows! Very easy to claim, though!
    She is now coming 8, sound and in light work, but she got her leg caught in a fence in summer 2010 and degloved her fetlock/severed her tendon, so she was rehabbed and will only be used for light riding/walk-trot lessons from now on. Thankfully her new owner loves her and doesn't really care, but that's the chance you take with free/super cheap horses. There is always a reason - question is, are you ok with that reason?

    I personally will never take the chance because a) i don't have thousands of dollars to pour into extra vet bills every few months and b) i value my wellbeing too much to take a chance on something that might turn out to be... shall we say.. "quirky".

    I *make* my own now, lol - i loves me a clean slate!



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    Sorry but...this is not really a good deal. He was 300$ because he's worth 300$. Actually, I wouldn't have paid for such horse.

    You haven't rode him since you got him. He never been really trained. Will he be the nice horse you remember with the nice work ethic? And you'll have to go really slowly on the work load as he surely never had much muscles.
    He's 11 and will likely start to develop arthritis sooner than later givin his condition (and other conditions if you are not lucky) And by the time you reach third level, if ever, you will have spend that 30k he was once worth.

    For 5k, I could get a nice little Tb and do 3rd level in a year or so.
    (yes, I know he could die the day after the purchase! But with clean PPE/Xrays, its easier to hope for the best.)

    Good luck with him staying sound.

    There is always a reason why a horse is that cheap or free. It was someone's problem.

    I had history with this horse when I took him in. It wasn't just a cheap WB we found on CL.

    I forgot to put in my first post that he had a year of riding before he was put in training with my trainer.
    At 6 years old he was First schooling Second, and was very fit, so I can assure you that he was not just some freshly started greenie. He did not just do ring work, too, he did a lot of hillwork and gallops. He was working on ten meter circles and collected canter and the like as well before he came up lame the first time.
    My mother leased him for a year before his lameness got very bad, and I rode him often during that year.

    I have actually ridden him since I got him, when he was in SoCal with us and a little bit since we have been here in PNW, not as much as I would like since we don't have an arena. The most recent was a light hack around at the walk last October.

    He is most definitely the nice riding horse with the nice work ethic that I remember. I don't really see why his personality or work ethic would have changed
    I will have to go slowly on his work load because I want to leg him up carefully but I would do that with any horse who has been out of work.

    He is 11 now and he might develop arthritis, who knows. Our 21 year old mare with a life of light riding also has arthritis. He could also not have arthritis for many years, it just depends.

    The $300 for him was at my insistence. His owner and my good friend felt bad about taking money from me and I had to talk her into it, but after the thousands of dollars she poured into him I didn't think it was fair that she should have to pay the full amount to ship him to me as well especially since it cost more to ship than it would have to euthanize.

    I didn't take him because I thought I was getting a 'good deal'. I took him because I wanted him, and I took him knowing full well that there was a chance that he would never be rideable. I kept in mind that UCD's prognosis for him was very positive but did not get my hopes up.

    Over the last two years the only money I've spent on him has been routine vet and farrier care, because aside from his lameness he doesn't have any problems and is very healthy. When he was lame when I first got him it was managed with a little Bute. In the last year and a half he has not taken a lame step even when careening around his pasture like an idiot. I highly doubt that I'll have sunk $30 grand in him by the time he's dead.

    Assuming he stays sound, and considering that he is already pretty fit, as well as his natural talent and previous training, I don't think it would take as long as you suggest to get him to Third, unless of course I am reading your post wrong.

    It's not quite in line with the OP's original topic but he is a nice horse and we did get him for next to nothing.

    ETA: I wouldn't claim he could do upper level if I didn't really believe he could and I wouldn't claim it without having had the opinions of professionals who had worked with him and had advised his previous owner and myself on what he was capable of. I know some people like to exaggerate but I'm not one of them.

    I have a nicely built, nice-moving pony mare who could get to Second and perhaps Third but that would be the absolute extent of what she could do. I had another WB who would have only been Fourth level at the very end of his range too.
    Last edited by Tilly; Jan. 24, 2012 at 11:40 PM.
    Rebel Without Cash!



  19. #39
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    We sold a very nice TB for a girl who wanted to sell to a good home - so we sold him for very little - ENOUGH that someone would not think of buying to resell - but he was 16 and in great condition - no more arthritic than a 10 year old TB - and he is very well trained. She sold him cheap so she could look at the list of offers and pick the right home.

    I also know people who get in a bind and need the horse sold NOW and not in 4 months. A high priced horse often takes 6-12 months to sell. Sometimes they are 'priced to sell'.

    And like someone else said - Warmblood does not automatically mean 'super nice expensive high level horse'. I have ridden WBs I would not take if free.

    And I have bought horses others said were ill tempered because I knew they just had not been started right and restarted them. SO it is sometimes WORTH going to see them because maybe someone doesnt know what they have.



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilly View Post
    I had history with this horse when I took him in. It wasn't just a cheap WB we found on CL.
    No, wasn't from CL and you knew what you were getting into. But saying you got a 30 000$ horse for 300$ is not true. You got a 300$ horse no matter how beautiful he is and how much he was worth prior his lameness. A horse is only worth what someone wants to pay.

    And if you'd put him for sale tomorrow, I doubt he would sell for more than 300$.

    on a side note, IMHO and experience, horses don't really stay fit running around in their paddocks, their knowledge fades out with time as well as their willingness for heavier work load. It is also more difficult and it takes more time to get an older horse fit than a younger one (no matter if injured or not)
    Injuries in joints are more prone to arthritis, and you said your horse's bone looked chewed on, that is not a really good sign.
    It might be easily managed with proper shoeing and injections?!

    Anyway, I wish you good luck and fun with your nice horse, because I'm sure he truly is nice.



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