Where do you define "good deal" on well bred horses?
There a few threads around with discussions around good deals on young, upper level prospects. I have noticed that well-bred, nicely conformed youngsters seem to start at 5000 and like anything, the sky is the limit.
What is your "good deal" limit?
ETA: For the sake of this poll, let's say you want an FEI prospect (so to PSG at the minimum).
That will also depend if you limit your criteria to WBs or if you are looking at others. I bred my Irish mare to an Irish Draught stallion at I1 and long listed for the Candian team for a dressage prospect and am breeding her to a Rosenthal son for an Irish Draught sport horse dressage prospect. There are others like a GRP, fresian sport horses etc that are being bred with the goal of producing upper level prospects that don't normally command the prices of WB thus a deal price will depend
Irish Draughts and Irish Draught Sport horses
depending on the quality of the young horse, you could pay more than this and still be getting the deal of the century on a going 3 or 4 year old.....there are horses that will eventually do the fei tests, and there are serious fei horses......
I am not sure what the middleman, his existence or lack there of, has to do with what different people consider a good deal.
If the average dressage-prospect-shopper's trainer thinks that a 20,000 two year old is a great deal, but the average AA with non Olympic showing goals needs to stay under 10,000 you have a pretty big difference.
I am not talking about the Totilas or Lemony's Nicketts, but the nice horses that average people will be able to ride.
I don't know what you mean by "young"? The price for me is very different depending on if it's a weanling vs 2 year old vs 3 year old. My price for a good deal (in the same order) would be less than 5k, 5-10k, 10-15k.
I'm assuming we are talking about purchasing a warmblood/warmblood X weanling given the categories.
If you factor in the price of the stud fee ($1500-2000), cost of veterinary services (breeding - fresh vs frozen, progesterone supplementation, vaccinations, repeated ultrasounds, $1000-2000), mare maintenance (stall bedding, farrier, worming, $800-1200) and feed (depending on the region of country and including pasture maintenance, grain, hay, $3500-5000). So, on the low end we talking the cost of producing a quality foal at $6800 and the high end around $10,200 without any labor costs, advertising or unforeseen events.
Seems to me any figure below $7000 is the "going out of business" price.
Having bred and raised my own horses I can say that all of these prices are fire sale prices for anything over a year old. To find a well bred three year old for less than 25k is a gift. And worth every penny. The risk involved in breeding is substantial...and for every good specimin you raise, there is the less desirable one in the back pasture that absorbs any profit from a great sale!!! And while I agree with the poster who advised to "buy your own"....a knowledgable horseman may be a wise investment if you are not one!!!
"Over the Hill?? What Hill, Where?? I don't remember any hill!!!" Favorite Tee Shirt
I haven't shopped for anything less than a three year old- so that's what I can speak to. I'd consider anything under $25k for a 3/4 year old FEI prospect with age appropriate training to be a good deal.
A Pro's horse and a horse that can be ridden by an Ammi at or close to FEI level and Stay Sound are two different creatures and comand different prices. There is also 100x more horses that can pull off a clean PSG test than can pull off a clean Grand Prix test. I1 is the breaking point for a I'd say 80% of all FEI horses.
I have had a few Pro only PSG horses who had some joint issues. These are not that tough to find. You can find these guys for under $2500.00 As long as you have the ability to ride them and the knowledge to keep them up $2500.00 is a good price.
A sound GP horse that an ammi can ride when it retires from GP at the international level and still be sound? $100k minimum. Never seen on the open market.
Since you stopped your price ranges at $15,000, I assumed you meant the price for a weanling.
I paid $7500 (plus $1200 to get him down here from Canada) and I thought I got a very good deal. So I voted for $5k - $10k.
I would be suspicious of a well bred weanling going for under $5k. Yes, I am sure they are out there, and there are valid reasons to price one so low -- but I would certainly want to know what the reason was.
Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities. Voltaire
For a weanling well bred great moving WB foal under 15K is good, under 10K is great! So I defined it as under 10K.
Poll didn't specify age range.
I'd also like to add that, although there are some risks, I think the younger the horse the more likely you are to find a really good one at a good price. In my experience, the super foals get snapped up by those who can recognize what they are. After that, they stay off the market, sometimes indefinitely, or, if they are offered for sale, it's often at a very significant price.
There are so many different levels of quality that I don't think you can categorize them into one. Derid paints a very clear picture but leaves out one very important expense. The cost of the mare. We all know that it takes a great mare to have a great foal. Those cost lots of money. I turned down $60,000 for one of my broodmares as a four year old. That "value" has to be factored in to the foal price if one is to run a business like a business! Most youngsters these days are selling way under their true production cost, including mine. Maybe those great prices aren't going out of business prices yet, but they are certainly pointed in that direction. There are great deals out there to be had at all price levels. I hope U.S. breeders can make it through these tough times as we have come so far.
I think that everyone wants to get the most horse for the money spent, but I left out too many details because most buyers have a pretty constrained budget.
They are the demand side of the equation.
So, while the realities of production costs are interesting to note, I think that the supply side should note what the biggest pool of potential buyers are willing to spend.
Everyone loves to tell the story of the six figure outliers, or high five figure young horses that a few wealthier than average people buy, but there are not so mAny of those who consider more than 15K a bargain for an untrained youngster.
Well, most horses can get through a PSG test with the right rider. Do you want a horse that is going to score 70 percent at PSG or a horse that can simply get through the test correctly? Ie how competative do you want to be?
I could find lots of horses under ten k that might be able to make it to PSG but to find a truly competitive youngster (say two to three years old) with top gaits for under 35k ish is a good deal!
Now, that being said, I know of one person who has trained probably more team horses than anyone else and I know that this person doesn't ever pay more than 20 k for a youngster. If you have a super duper eye and amazing feel clearly you don't need to spend a fortune to buy a superstar in the making.