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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2002
    Location
    Fauquier County, VA
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    290

    Default Future of Morven Park

    I have seen several notices lately on all the future plans for Morven Park. http://morvenpark.org/masterplan.php Just curious if anyone has any further details. It appears by the site plan that soccer fields will be going in next to the Davis arena, but can't tell if that arena will be staying. Will there be any changes to the cross-country course? Any idea when the new indoor and barns will be erected? I compete at Morven numerous times a year, so I'm interested to know what the future holds for it.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
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    12,752

    Default

    Judging from the Mansion Dr. map, most of the equestrian facilities will remain in more or less their same location. The only big move I can see is the indoor. It LOOKS like it may move to straight ahead when you come in the main drive off Tutt Lane, instead of off to the left. But it is a little hard to tell. It looks as if there are plans to put a Grand Prix jumping field in the in field of the racecourse, and build more rings centrally to the equestrian facilities. Both good and valid ideas.

    I for one am happy to know that they are developing the trails more and they should be open for multi-use. I am especially happy now that I am back in Loudoun County! Just wish they had worked on it a bit more when I was 2 miles away and could have ridden my bike from home to ride there instead of 20! I think the plans are exciting! It is such a beautiful spot of VA history...I am very glad to see that they are starting to try and develop it and promote it more.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    18,262

    Default

    There was a previous thread on this that was not quite so positive.
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ht=Morven+Park
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
    6,741

    Default

    The guy isn't a horse person...the area has more than enough bloody soccer fields for the illegals and other fields for the locals. Where are all these people going to park? Tons of infrastructure needed for all these people and their cars.

    "Oh boy, I can ride my bike!" There are a ton of bike trails, very few horse areas...lets screw it up with even more bike trails very unfriendly to horses (the W&OD used to have a bluestone trail for horses...try and find it now, if there, it's full of the bikes avoiding the idiot housewives pushing prams 3 abreast blocking the trail.

    Myself, I won't be donating to Morven again, I see no reason to pay for damn soccer fields and it sure isn't a horse related facility any more. They hired this guy to destroy the place, he's doing what they wanted, it'll soon be a nice small patch of green with a bunch of fields.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
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    Middleburg, VA
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    Default

    Just read the other thread. Yes, not as promising as I would like.

    That being said, Trakehner, the trails I am referring to are MOUNTAIN BIKE trails...unpaved, natural trails that already exist and have been left unused for years. I'm not talking about a trail system like the W & OD (which, GASP, I am also a fan of...I have more than one interest!!! I DO like having places to ride my bikes and my horses!!! Shocking, I know!). The MB trails have been in discussion with the board since BEFORE this current director, when the board was a bit more horsey. There's a lot of acreage there, and using some of it for hiking and mountain biking (and trail riding) would be a very nice addition. The mountain bike community is a big reason there are trail systems still in existence that everyone can use...so don't be so quick to poopoo the cycling community. There would not be trails at Fair Hill if it wasn't for IMBA and MORE. Just sayin'.

    I AM bummed about the races.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,217

    Default

    From my understanding the new director, although not a horse person, is interested in keeping equestrian activity an important part of the park... but to do that the park needs to make money. As horsey as the area is, it is even more filled with suburbanites and their soccer playing, field hockey stick wielding, bike riding offspring. The park has consistently lost money on the races over the past several years, they couldn't justify continuing to pour money into a huge tract of land that wasn't paying for itself. As sad as it is not to have the races, from a financial standpoint I'd rather see them take the money they were bleeding to the races and build new barns, improve the footing and build some soccer fields that will generate revenue for park maintenance. I'm with yellowbritches, I don't think it's all doom and gloom and the changes might actually generate MORE horsey activity in the park.

    Right now there aren't any major changes slated for the xc course, although they do have some improvements in the works.
    If it were easy, everybody would do it.

    Equi-Sport Services



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2010
    Posts
    11

    Default

    As yellowbritches pointed out, the mountain bike trails have been in planning for years...I have been involved in that process several times (so as a mountain biker and an UL rider I am going to be on 1/2 of your S*#t lists) and have watched it rise and fall, usually because past board members could not figure out that mountain bikes are NOT motorcyles and that mountain bikes in fact do less damage to trails than my horse does. My mountain bike weighs 24 lbs, my horse weighs 1000 +....
    The real value here is that the mountain bike community is very organized and extremely proficient at building high quality, safe trails. At little to no cost to Morven Park...Mountain bikers are (as she said) the only reason that the trails exist at Fair Hill and mountain bike groups maintain trails in Cabin John Park, Schaeffer Farm and Black Hill regional park as well as helping out in Rosaryville and dozens of other parks in Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, Deleware and Pennsylvania (nation wide for that matter) where hikers, bikers and equestrians SHARE THE TRAILS...remember, the horse community is very small compared to the hiking, biking and soccer communities...It typically has a wealthier demographic which is why places like Morven park often listened when one or two elitist board members objected to soccer and mountain bikes...Those days are gone and with money tight, we all have to band together to keep these type of facilities afloat...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2010
    Posts
    11

    Default

    P.S. to my previous...I have advocated that Morven Park host mountain bike races with an eye towards World Cup Racing. This is a great opportunity to bring revenue into the park that will be shared with the equestrian center as well as other park amenities...It will also help to put Morven Park back on the National and International stage where it belongs....
    So do your horse and yourself a favor and get out there on your bike and work off those Holiday pounds and get in shape for better cross country rounds this season!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    Default

    But the steeplechase course is used in T3Ds and I thought they ran one.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
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    1,217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    But the steeplechase course is used in T3Ds and I thought they ran one.

    Right now the plan is not to scrap the course itself, but to no longer host the races. It's my understanding that if a third party wanted to lease the venue to host their own races they could still do so, similar to how LHPC runs a horse trials at Morven (but don't quote me on that).
    If it were easy, everybody would do it.

    Equi-Sport Services



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
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    Middleburg, VA
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    Default

    Morven has, unfortunately, not hosted a three day since 2009, I believe (the year BEFORE my horse was ready to do one, of course). There has never been any plan for a T3DE there as far as I know.

    Thanks, tomac, for all the good MB info. I know it in my head, but not quite as thoroughly as you.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
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    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
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    11,113

    Default

    There will be informational meetings held on January 31st & February 1st @ 7PM in the Coach House if any of you muffinheads want to know what's going on.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
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    Default

    Unfortunately, bike riders hate horse riders. They have horrid manners usually when dealing with anyone but bike riders...just read the Coth discussions on rude bike riders, dangerous mountain bike riders and their attitudes toward anyone on a horse or on foot. These two groups often don't mesh well.

    In Maryland, the Washington Bridle Trails/Through Rock Creek Park in MD and DC were started and built by horse riders (the Washington Bridle Trails Association-WBTA). They were around for years. Then, bike riders lobbied to have horse access removed from the trails. Horses deposited turds, how nasty. Then bike riders demanded the routes be paved...even less areas for horses to go. Of course, then the housefrau's showed up with their strollers and horses had to be removed "for the safety of their pasty children"...even less riding places. You can't even ride a horse past I-495/Mormon Temple in Rock Creek Park anymore without getting a criminal ticket for tresspassing.

    Tons of places for bikers to ride, pity the horse people always suffer..."but, there are so many more bike riders than those wealthy horse owners....it's only fair the horse's lose..." Wave good-bye to horses at Morven fairly soon.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
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    Middleburg, VA
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    Default

    Cyclists (at least the MOUNTAIN BIKERS we are referring to) do not "hate" horses. They may be under educated (something that we work on), but they are happy and willing to share the trails ESPECIALLY when other users share in the upkeep of our trails. They are quick to adopt safe horse etiquette when they learn what is appropriate. I've never heard a MOUNTAIN BIKER complain about sharing the trails....though, I have heard LOTS of equestrians.

    Again, we are NOT talking about paved, wide, suburban bike trails , but natural, off road, rooty, rutty, technical trails that are ideal for HIKERS (not strollers) off road bicycles (not speedy road bikes), and horses.

    And you are absolutely 100% WRONG about there being lots of places to ride bikes- MOUNTAIN BIKES (there is a difference, if you care to learn it)- in Loudoun County. As far as I know (and I have done a lot of looking) there are NO MOUNTAIN BIKE trail systems in Loudoun, save a short 3/4 mile zippy little circuit off of the W & OD. And, as far as I know, there are no public trail systems for HORSES (other than the W & OD) in Loudoun (I could be wrong on this one as I don't typically haul places to trail ride). My suggestion would be to quit your bitchin', as the MTB community's effort to get the trails open at Morven would benefit BOTH communities.

    On top of that, why don't you educate yourself and go to the meetings that Lex mentions (thanks for the info, Lex)? Find out what the REAL plans are instead of spouting off here. And instead of pulling donations away and watching something you love go in a different direction and bitching about it, why don't you be the thorn in the side of the board? Or get on the board? Volunteer your time and energy? Tomac saw a way to IMPROVE Morven for two different communities he loves and enjoys, so he got on the phone and started things rolling. If you're not willing to do any of that and you are going to stop donating, then I think you have absolute no reason to complain.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    729

    Default It's Nice to Share

    I think "Tomac" said it all. Having worked on a public park project in Fairfax County, I have come to realize that equestrians are going to have to share open space with other users. If we stick together and participate we have a way better chance of obtaining horse facilities.

    We are way better off working with bikers instead of against them. They are organized, there are more of them, and they stick together to take care of what they care about.

    I have not yet figured out why horse people cannot get past our differences in breed, sport, or discipline to work together, but that is another discussion.
    When I pull on my boots, I know who I am



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
    6,741

    Default

    For equestrians, Morven charges $25 to use any of the facilities (e.g. trails).

    So, for every user of the bike trials, hikers and soccer field users, can we also expect the'll be paying a hefty fee? I really doubt it. Morven has sure been willing to nail us for using their facility, lets see if they lower the horse riders to the level of the "desired" new market users.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  17. #17
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    Jul. 11, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbritches View Post
    Cyclists (at least the MOUNTAIN BIKERS we are referring to) do not "hate" horses. They may be under educated (something that we work on), but they are happy and willing to share the trails ESPECIALLY when other users share in the upkeep of our trails....My suggestion would be to quit your bitchin', as the MTB community's effort to get the trails open at Morven would benefit BOTH communities.
    Have you read any of the posts regarding bike riders, both road and mountain and the problems a lot of Cothers have had with this group? The most polite "bikers" with horses are the "Hog" riders and a lot of the dirt-bike/4x4 riders. The mountain bike riders complain constantly about horses impact on "their" trails.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    For equestrians, Morven charges $25 to use any of the facilities (e.g. trails).

    So, for every user of the bike trials, hikers and soccer field users, can we also expect the'll be paying a hefty fee? I really doubt it. Morven has sure been willing to nail us for using their facility, lets see if they lower the horse riders to the level of the "desired" new market users.
    Good question to take to those informational meetings Lex mentioned.

    1000lb horses with steel shoes do more damage to soft ground than 25lb bikes with rubber tires...it's a fact. Suck it up. And, from personal observations, bikers care far more about not tearing up the going when it is soft than riders.

    Once again, if you don't like something, your best venue for fixing it isn't HERE, but with the board at Morven. If you want to see some changes, do something about it...otherwise, you're just a big ol' whiner.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2008
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    3,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    In Maryland, the Washington Bridle Trails/Through Rock Creek Park in MD and DC were started and built by horse riders (the Washington Bridle Trails Association-WBTA). They were around for years. Then, bike riders lobbied to have horse access removed from the trails. Horses deposited turds, how nasty. Then bike riders demanded the routes be paved...even less areas for horses to go. Of course, then the housefrau's showed up with their strollers and horses had to be removed "for the safety of their pasty children"...even less riding places. You can't even ride a horse past I-495/Mormon Temple in Rock Creek Park anymore without getting a criminal ticket for tresspassing.
    .
    I have been involved w/ Washington Bridle Trails Association) WBTA since the mid-80's and we never had any involvement with the trail system in Rock Creek Parks. Perhaps when WBTA was founded in 1940 they may have been involved in the trail system there but not any longer. In my 25+ year involvement, and as past officer(s) of the board have never received or participated in any such hearing concerning cyclists lobbying against horses in the Park - not saying it didn't happen, just saying WBTA is not involved.They continue to host H/j shows at Meadowbrook and will be entering their 71st year. Housefraus for some reason still enjoy taking their strollers right smack into the back end of a group of horses at WBTA during the shows - and their look of shock when you say to them er em - you might want to move your stroller away from the horses...



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