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  1. #1
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    Default Only crap horses end up in danger of slaughter-NOT

    Horse once destined for slaughter becomes USEF HOTY.

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/317974?mid=57
    Last edited by jetsmom; Jan. 24, 2012 at 12:39 AM. Reason: To please Lifesabreeze



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Horse that was bought from the Kill pen becomes USEF HOTY.

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/317974?mid=57
    This is a nice story of a bad running horse that is good at other, just as so many race track failures are.

    Good for the trainer, but hardly special, as that is what many trainers have done all their lives, retrain horses, race horses too, for their next task, if we can find something else they may be good at.
    I can't even count how many horses off the track we retrained, there were so many.

    I grew up training and retraining horses that came directly from the slaughter plant, as the manager would call when some nice horses came thru there.
    Our riding school director went to check them out and send us truckloads of them, some loads were of feral horses just caught in the mountains.

    The horse industry is dependent on our many uses of horses, for many purposes.
    Slaughter is just one more of those uses.
    The horses the horse industry doesn't has use for any more are going to either be disposed of thru slaughter or some other way, as in the euthanizing clinics/animal control euthanizing, if there is no place for them.

    This is a wonderful story, but trying to make it only about slaughter?
    That he, as so many other horses others could not find a use for and trainers pick from those horses and retrain, that is standard for what trainers do.
    That he may or not have been headed to slaughter makes a great story, but is incidental.

    I think you are missing what slaughter is and is not.
    I wonder what your point is with presenting this very interesting and wonderful story in itself as just one more anti-slaughter propaganda story only with that title:

    "Only crap horses end up in danger of slaughter-NOT"

    I also personally object to anyone calling any horses "crap".



  3. #3

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    I think the OP was referencing the oft-repeated tale we need slaughter because where else are our sick, lame, and skinny horses going to go? When the fact of the matter is, it's not the "reject" horses that end up in slaughter situations. The horse in the news story is a useful, talented horse, not the picture of the lame, old, broken down slaughter nag that many people think of.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    I think the OP was referencing the oft-repeated tale we need slaughter because where else are our sick, lame, and skinny horses going to go? When the fact of the matter is, it's not the "reject" horses that end up in slaughter situations. The horse in the news story is a useful, talented horse, not the picture of the lame, old, broken down slaughter nag that many people think of.

    I would say that, with the OP's record of pushing animal rights agendas in our previous discussions, to think that contesting that old myth is all that was intended with this thread, that is missing the forest looking at one tree.

    Such a good story, now just one more slaughter debate.



  5. #5

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    Sorry, I don't really "follow" usernames enough to remember who pushes what in any given conversation.
    The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
    Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    Sorry, I don't really "follow" usernames enough to remember who pushes what in any given conversation.
    Well, I forget to look at who posts what, but some names just tend to stand out after a while.
    The OP is a wonderful, caring person, as most everyone here is.
    We just tend to disagree about some topics, what slaughter is and is not one of them, as you can see.

    Stories of horses doing well after getting in the right hands are wonderful "human interest", guess that it is "horse interest" stories.

    I think we would be best leaving them as such, not making them part of the slaughter controversy.
    Then, if some want to make it so, that is fine too, just seems sad to me.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    Sorry, I don't really "follow" usernames enough to remember who pushes what in any given conversation.
    Me neither, except that Bluey, being so prolific, has become very familiar to me Agree with this and cannot see the "down side" of pointing out that nice horses may end up in slaughter:

    I think the OP was referencing the oft-repeated tale we need slaughter because where else are our sick, lame, and skinny horses going to go?



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    Me neither, except that Bluey, being so prolific, has become very familiar to me Agree with this and cannot see the "down side" of pointing out that nice horses may end up in slaughter:
    True that, according to the story, it is a salient fact in the story as told.

    My point, if we make this story one more anti slaughter propaganda story, that lacks perspective.
    Plenty of off track horses could be said to also be "saved from slaughter" by finding a different career, it is how the horse industry works.
    Beats what happens to small animals, just discarded so carelessly in shelters.
    I think slaughter is a useful alternative to that for our unwanted horses.

    Then, that is why these are discussions, as everyone has a different point of view.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I would say that, with the OP's record of pushing animal rights agendas in our previous discussions, to think that contesting that old myth is all that was intended with this thread, that is missing the forest looking at one tree.

    Such a good story, now just one more slaughter debate.
    As I recall, anyone who is not strongly pro slaughter or agrees fully with Bluey's personal position on slaughter is labeled an RARA. I've been called one also and I'm not anti slaughter. I'm simply opposed to the way slaughter is conducted now with long transport and inaccurate stunning and consider the process inhumane.

    Jetsmom has been a member of the forum a very long time and to the best of my knowledge doesn't belong to PETA or any other AR group.

    I also hear the same phrase all the time regarding most people's viewpoint on slaughter...that only the lame, old, or crazy horses end up in that situation and slaughter serves a purpose to rid the world of such horses. It is definitely a fable and not true as many useful, sound, and sane horses end up meeting that fate.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    As I recall, anyone who is not strongly pro slaughter or agrees fully with Bluey's personal position on slaughter is labeled an RARA. I've been called one also and I'm not anti slaughter. I'm simply opposed to the way slaughter is conducted now with long transport and inaccurate stunning and consider the process inhumane.

    Jetsmom has been a member of the forum a very long time and to the best of my knowledge doesn't belong to PETA or any other AR group.

    I also hear the same phrase all the time regarding most people's viewpoint on slaughter...that only the lame, old, or crazy horses end up in that situation and slaughter serves a purpose to rid the world of such horses. It is definitely a fable and not true as many useful, sound, and sane horses end up meeting that fate.

    What Bluey said is far nice than how I would have described her though.
    I find her pushing for radical ideas that can't be enforced without massive backlash fr the rest of us.
    Not to mention that she is not very nice.
    In short, radical. Actual membership in thinly veiled terrorist organizations not withstanding.

    I know Bluey could just cut and paste her text file about one last use. But so could various other posters on this issue do with their 'our horses' bit.
    The discussion has been on that track for years now.

    Bluey was one of the people who foresaw the blight to hit the horses when the slaughterhouses in the US closed. The economic downturn could not have been foreseen by anybody, but it magnified the problems manifold.
    And we are back to the OMG horse slaughter....

    We slaughter cows, we slaughter pigs, we kill chickens by the billions. but horsies are liek to totally off limits?
    Only BS reasons given for it, usually including a royal 'we' don't do that 'we' don't do this.

    It's a sad disconnect between realities and ideal conditions.

    And frankly, a race horse that does not win, especially on a small track, is a crap race horse. end of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
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  11. #11
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    Jetsmom is not very nice?? Seriously? I find Jetsmom's posts to be well thought out and interesting and factual. She's always been very nice to me also unlike some others I won't mention. I can't remember a time she was not polite on these forums.

    But then I don't agree with the majority of a certain poster's viewpoints on slaughter either..that one last use stuff...one last use of horses full of drugs and never intended to be eaten by people to begin with?? Racehorses that nearly all have been given bute and other performance enhancing drugs that should never enter the human food chain. You can't even slaughter them for dog food as the dog food manufacturers don't want to feed them either for meat safety reasons!

    I believe that meat animals should be raised as such from birth with high standards for meat quality and safety...not like horses that end up there by accident 99% of the time as rejects from something like racing or simply unlucky enough to be owned by someone who does not care what happens to them. That is the reality of the system as it is now. The reality is not a pretty picture at all.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    As I recall, anyone who is not strongly pro slaughter or agrees fully with Bluey's personal position on slaughter is labeled an RARA. I've been called one also and I'm not anti slaughter. I'm simply opposed to the way slaughter is conducted now with long transport and inaccurate stunning and consider the process inhumane.

    Jetsmom has been a member of the forum a very long time and to the best of my knowledge doesn't belong to PETA or any other AR group.

    I also hear the same phrase all the time regarding most people's viewpoint on slaughter...that only the lame, old, or crazy horses end up in that situation and slaughter serves a purpose to rid the world of such horses. It is definitely a fable and not true as many useful, sound, and sane horses end up meeting that fate.
    Ditto that. I just had a long, drawn out discussion on a local board, with several posters insisting that only crazy, lame, starving horses end up being slaughtered...despite the fact that our amazing pony, Polly, came off a slaughter truck. I think many uninformed people use that rationale to make themselves comfortable with the slaughter issue. When I ask what the purpose of slaughtering skinny horses, they can't come up with an answer.

    I am not an AR activist, although I am involved in rescue. I have no problem euthanizing even healthy horses if they have no other options available to them. The rescue I work with has a euth program, as well as sponsoring castration clinics, for people who can't afford those services. I think animals should be treated as humanely as possible, but I eat meat, ride my horses, work my dogs, expect my chickens to lay eggs for their keep, and my fish lives in a bowl.



  13. #13
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    Hmm....I just took it as a feel-good story about a horse who had found his way out of a bad situation twice and lived on to excel in another sport.....I rather enjoyed the video showing how much he loves his job....

    The main topic on this is Slaughter?.....oh....

    Carry on.....
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeta View Post
    Hmm....I just took it as a feel-good story about a horse who had found his way out of a bad situation twice and lived on to excel in another sport.....I rather enjoyed the video showing how much he loves his job....

    The main topic on this is Slaughter?.....oh....

    Carry on.....
    According to the thread's title, this is about slaughter, yes.

    I agree, a feel-good story, as you call it, now used for some agendas.
    Happens regularly, sadly.
    Guess that all of us are guilty of that some time or another.



  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    I think the OP was referencing the oft-repeated tale we need slaughter because where else are our sick, lame, and skinny horses going to go? When the fact of the matter is, it's not the "reject" horses that end up in slaughter situations. The horse in the news story is a useful, talented horse, not the picture of the lame, old, broken down slaughter nag that many people think of.
    the "sick, lame and skinny" as well as the pregnant and the blind have been refused on the trucks and at the plants by law for many years

    people still rush to "rescue" them however...leaving the fit and sound to their fates

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  16. #16
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    It just occurred to me that I don't know what RARA is, and I can't find it on Google. Anyone? Maybe I need to spend more time on COTH (not really)



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    It just occurred to me that I don't know what RARA is, and I can't find it on Google. Anyone? Maybe I need to spend more time on COTH (not really)
    RARA = "Radical Animal Rights Activist"



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Jetsmom is not very nice?? Seriously? I find Jetsmom's posts to be well thought out and interesting and factual. She's always been very nice to me also unlike some others I won't mention. I can't remember a time she was not polite on these forums.

    But then I don't agree with the majority of a certain poster's viewpoints on slaughter either..that one last use stuff...one last use of horses full of drugs and never intended to be eaten by people to begin with?? Racehorses that nearly all have been given bute and other performance enhancing drugs that should never enter the human food chain. You can't even slaughter them for dog food as the dog food manufacturers don't want to feed them either for meat safety reasons!

    I believe that meat animals should be raised as such from birth with high standards for meat quality and safety...not like horses that end up there by accident 99% of the time as rejects from something like racing or simply unlucky enough to be owned by someone who does not care what happens to them. That is the reality of the system as it is now. The reality is not a pretty picture at all.

    She is more nice than very nice. I am trying to keep this in the vein of what Bluey said. Let's just keep it this way, yes?

    Anyhow.
    We have gone over this a million times.
    The handful of racehorses that actually do end up in the pens is not too alarming.
    Most people do not feed and medicate out of the wazoo. That is often enough the subject of the outraged on COTH. Dobbins isn't getting X supplement or Y feed, is it abuse.
    OMG they are never wormed, trimmed etc...
    I am not saying drugged horses never end up in the pens, but I am pretty certain they are not the majority!

    Also, we no longer have the luxury of doing things we used to do. The consciousness has evolved in terms of chemicals: Just as much as you don't want it in your food, others don't want it in their water or the air. So that tends to limit disposal options.

    We can argue til the cows come home about that. We are experiencing a major disconnect between our roots and our current lifestyle. We are also still rich enough to waste at leisure.
    Pumping 1200 pounds of meat full of toxins, then bury or burn it, all in a day's work.
    All while there are plenty of people in poverty in this country, some places over half the children in a given county - not countRy - live below the estimated poverty level! Even with government assistance, malnourishment is plentiful!

    We are not quiet there yet to accept horse back in the grocery shelves. Not every place anyhow. Give it a little more time. Ethnic demands (yep, I did not forget Florida) and continued economic hardship could change things in a hurry. You yourself estimate decades of recession.

    In any case, the sensationalism of the headline. Bluey is right, reeks of agenda.
    And yes, if the horse does not run fast on the track, it's a crap racehorse.
    Does not mean he can't do something else, he is just a crap racehorse.

    There are a lot of nice horses in the pens, that could bring a lot of joy to somebody. No doubt. But there is no room at the Inn, and you just can't put them on blocks until things are better.

    (oh, and not to mention that our horses live longer and are often kept well past their useful lives, partly because we can bring ourselves to make the decision until there is no quality of life left many times.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
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  19. #19
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    Not to get involved in this ridiculous argument of who thinks what...


    No, not just the lame, sick & old end up in the feed lots!! It is amazing how many sound, sane, NICE horses end up in the lot, through no fault of their own. NYNE just had a really super cute little pony rehomed, great movement, could really go on to be a nice show/lesson pony. Also a couple really cute ex-racehorses that just weren't very fast, but their nicely put together for hunter/jumper careers. A lot of just young inexperienced horses who need some training and they'll go on to have full lives as great riding partners.

    There are lame, sick and old ones who do go; there are also lots who should never have ended up there in the first place. Unless we get people to stop breeding crap and not training it, or get a lot more people involved in horses (c'mon peak oil! let's go!!) there just aren't enough homes for all the horses that need them.

    Thanks for sharing that link OP, I had to post it to the group so everyone can see it . Beautiful boy!!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    She is more nice than very nice. I am trying to keep this in the vein of what Bluey said. Let's just keep it this way, yes?
    I'll be the picture of politeness until she uses profanity and insults me like she did the other night. Then I'll hit report. "What's good for the goose is good for the gander" don't you know? Or how do they say, "two can play at that game?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Anyhow.
    We have gone over this a million times.
    The handful of racehorses that actually do end up in the pens is not too alarming.
    Really? Something like 30% of all horses slaughtered if I recall correctly are TB's? If you use 100,000 horses slaughtered which is a low number, that is 33,000 horses!!! That's not alarming considering most of them raced on Lasix and Bute? If even you assume that half of those are fresh off the track, than thats over 15000 horses! That's not alarming? I think it's disgusting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I am not saying drugged horses never end up in the pens, but I am pretty certain they are not the majority!
    Considering how common the use of Bute is and that once given it forever forbids the use of that animal (any animal) as human food, I have to differ with your opinion there. I'll wager a good 50% of the horses that end up slaughtered (counting all those racehorses) have not just had bute but they've had it recently. There's other drugs also and many with withdrawal periods which are not being followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    All while there are plenty of people in poverty in this country, some places over half the children in a given county - not countRy - live below the estimated poverty level! Even with government assistance, malnourishment is plentiful!
    I believe you'll find that there is plenty of food to feed everyone. It just doesn't end up in the hands of the people who need it and sits in warehouses until it expires or is thrown out. Cripes all that restaurant food from buffets that is not eaten is thrown out and it could be given to homeless shelters or needy people. I've been donating small pullet eggs to a local family who is personally feeding a bunch of homeless people. I can't sell them but I can see that they are put to good use. I could throw them out but what a waste that would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    We are not quiet there yet to accept horse back in the grocery shelves. Not every place anyhow. Give it a little more time. Ethnic demands (yep, I did not forget Florida) and continued economic hardship could change things in a hurry. You yourself estimate decades of recession.
    I estimate decades of recession/depression if we keep depending on cheap energy like it will always be there..which it will not...to produce and transport the food supply for our nation. We have the ability to make reasonable adjustments now to our food supply production to make it local and sustainable and not dependent on oil inputs for all aspects of it's production, but it will never happen in time. The status quo won't let go of their power and control to allow this to happen.

    Will we ever eat horses here? Probably but I doubt you'll find it offered in stores. Most likely it will be desperate starving people who end up eating it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    In any case, the sensationalism of the headline. Bluey is right, reeks of agenda.
    And yes, if the horse does not run fast on the track, it's a crap racehorse.
    Does not mean he can't do something else, he is just a crap racehorse.
    So what if she has an agenda to let people know of the myth that NOT only crap horses go to slaughter. Why is that so terrible? Why is that so upsetting? It's true...a number of people have posted now to agree that that is what they hear as a justification all of the time to defend a broken and inhumane system.



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